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<blockquote data-quote="TheOneGargoyle" data-source="post: 8447599" data-attributes="member: 6924207">Really nice comprehensive response !Agreed, I would drop the extra skill too.This is super valuable intel.&nbsp; No, I have not tried a flat +2 at my table, so hearing your play experience there is extremely interesting.Based on this then, I would suggest more trials using the flat +2 and if that proves sufficient, then I would modify my approach to use yours.Agreed.That is a really interesting line of thought!Ok, so if we were to take that approach, instead of more attacks, how would you suggest we improve their damage per attack ?&nbsp; Clearly the MA dice bumps are woefully inadequate by themself.&nbsp; And I'd rather not go modifying every single subclass.&nbsp; Not sure I agree with this though.&nbsp; Monks do get a string of defensive powers, eg:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Evasion at L7</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Purity of Body at L10 (immune to disease &amp; poison)</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Diamond Soul at L14 (prof in all saves and spend ki to reroll)</li>
</ul>But my point is that they do not get a single offensive power from when they get Extra Attack at L5 to .... well .... ever.&nbsp; Unless you count the d6 -&gt; d10 upgrade, which is a avg bonus of 2 pts of dmg, a L20 monk has exactly the same dmg output as a L5 monk.&nbsp; Of course, a L20 can do that same L5 damage for longer, but he can't do any more per round.&nbsp; That's just so wrong.&nbsp; Show me any other class that does that, regardless of how strong their defensive abilities are.Having said all that, your previous point about monks should get more damage per attack instead of more attacks per round, so maybe if they did more dmg per attack we wouldn't need to bump FoB ?&nbsp; What about if unarmed attacks (not monk weapon attacks) used 2 MA dice instead of 1 from level L11 onwards ?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="TheOneGargoyle, post: 8447599, member: 6924207"] Really nice comprehensive response ! Agreed, I would drop the extra skill too. This is super valuable intel. No, I have not tried a flat +2 at my table, so hearing your play experience there is extremely interesting. Based on this then, I would suggest more trials using the flat +2 and if that proves sufficient, then I would modify my approach to use yours. Agreed. That is a really interesting line of thought! Ok, so if we were to take that approach, instead of more attacks, how would you suggest we improve their damage per attack ? Clearly the MA dice bumps are woefully inadequate by themself. And I'd rather not go modifying every single subclass. Not sure I agree with this though. Monks do get a string of defensive powers, eg: [LIST] [*]Evasion at L7 [*]Purity of Body at L10 (immune to disease & poison) [*]Diamond Soul at L14 (prof in all saves and spend ki to reroll) [/LIST] But my point is that they do not get a single offensive power from when they get Extra Attack at L5 to .... well .... ever. Unless you count the d6 -> d10 upgrade, which is a avg bonus of 2 pts of dmg, a L20 monk has exactly the same dmg output as a L5 monk. Of course, a L20 can do that same L5 damage for longer, but he can't do any more per round. That's just so wrong. Show me any other class that does that, regardless of how strong their defensive abilities are. Having said all that, your previous point about monks should get more damage per attack instead of more attacks per round, so maybe if they did more dmg per attack we wouldn't need to bump FoB ? What about if unarmed attacks (not monk weapon attacks) used 2 MA dice instead of 1 from level L11 onwards ? [/QUOTE]

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