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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8449044" data-attributes="member: 6801228">I can definetly see this as a result of attempting to diversify the classes, but the problem is that, frankly, these are the only two classes to be &quot;diverse&quot; in this respect. At least that has happened in a noticeable way. Also, at this point, since we are talking Subclasses, there is an added wrinkle that the subclasses are getting diversified, so some subclasses get a defensive ability, some an accuracy ability, some a multi-attack ability, some a utility or debuff ability. This leads to the power being even more variable. Just take these three abilities under RangersGloom Stalker gets an accuracy ability to retake a missed attackHorizon Walker gets a multi-attack ability to hit 3 targetsThe Monster Slayer gets 1/SR Counterspell.&nbsp; Only one directly improves damage for the turn, only two of them improve average damage at all. Also, with the Monk's abilities in particular, they tend to cost Ki. Drunkard's Luck is a highly situational Ki costing ability that can be used to prevent a penalty.Sharpen the Blade is ki cost for accuracy and Damage (but low damage. The Paladin adding a 1d8 to every attack is adding 4.5 average, the BEST Sharpen the Blade can do is adding +3) Searing Sunburst doesn't cost ki for the 2d6 AOE, but it is a full action and low damage for 11th level, meanwhile getting it more powerful... costs KiTranquility no Ki, but a HIGHLY situational defensive ability (1/day sanctuary that activates at start of the day)Cloak of Shadows, no Ki but action to become invisible in dim light is utilityNone of this really... a lot of these aren't even very well thought of abilities, are they?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8449044, member: 6801228"] I can definetly see this as a result of attempting to diversify the classes, but the problem is that, frankly, these are the only two classes to be "diverse" in this respect. At least that has happened in a noticeable way. Also, at this point, since we are talking Subclasses, there is an added wrinkle that the subclasses are getting diversified, so some subclasses get a defensive ability, some an accuracy ability, some a multi-attack ability, some a utility or debuff ability. This leads to the power being even more variable. Just take these three abilities under Rangers Gloom Stalker gets an accuracy ability to retake a missed attack Horizon Walker gets a multi-attack ability to hit 3 targets The Monster Slayer gets 1/SR Counterspell. Only one directly improves damage for the turn, only two of them improve average damage at all. Also, with the Monk's abilities in particular, they tend to cost Ki. Drunkard's Luck is a highly situational Ki costing ability that can be used to prevent a penalty. Sharpen the Blade is ki cost for accuracy and Damage (but low damage. The Paladin adding a 1d8 to every attack is adding 4.5 average, the BEST Sharpen the Blade can do is adding +3) Searing Sunburst doesn't cost ki for the 2d6 AOE, but it is a full action and low damage for 11th level, meanwhile getting it more powerful... costs Ki Tranquility no Ki, but a HIGHLY situational defensive ability (1/day sanctuary that activates at start of the day) Cloak of Shadows, no Ki but action to become invisible in dim light is utility None of this really... a lot of these aren't even very well thought of abilities, are they? [/QUOTE]

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