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Message: <blockquote data-quote="kapars" data-source="post: 8638164" data-attributes="member: 7034730">I agree that the class should move to a d10 hit die. I see the opinions that they are supposed to be skirmishing but the only way to effectively do that is by using Ki or Feat tax by taking the Mobile feat. The moment you use Ki for Step of the Wind or Patient Defense you fall far behind in terms of your damage contribution and Mobile works but limits the types of characters you can build.If you look at the expected incoming damage on page 274 of the DMG and you apply the average to hit bonus and you compare it to where unarmored defense is in terms of progression you see that often the Monk will not be able to much incoming damage if they are present to take it and do not have Patient defense active.A CR5 monster attacking a Level 5 monk, is doing 35.5 damage on average and hitting with a +6. A Monk that increased its Dexterity at level 4 and is using point buy or the standard array likely has 18 DEX and 17 AC (+4 from DEX and +3 from WIS) at this point in time. This means that the monster hits on 11 and up and has a 50% chance of hitting the monk. The monk likely having a 14 CON ( having to dump all abilities that make them relevant in other areas of play) on average has 38 hp at this point. This means the monster does 17.75 damage to the monk on average and the Monk can survive 2.14 CR 5 attacks. This is the average however and it is quite possible it does enough damage to knock out that 38hp Monk by doing slightly above average (7% above) damage for the round. On average we see the Monk surviving 1 or 2 CR5 attacks at most.Compare this with a Fighter wearing a Splint Armor and a shield (the only fighter with comparable DPR contribution) that has 19 AC and gets hit on 13 and up and therefore gets hit 40% of the time. This means a monster does 14.2 damage on average to the fighter. They likely have 16 CON which yields 49 HP at this level on average and can survive 3.45 attacks from CR5 monsters before going unconscious on average. In terms of a single attack or multi-attack from a creature they would need to take 49 damage in a single turn which is 38% over average damage and far less likely.Another point to consider is that if you are Skirmishing someone else has to be the main tank and they are now taking more hits due to not sharing the load with you. This causes the issue of your presence not filling a main party role and therefore forcing someone else to take a specific role since you do not have the skill expertise of the Rogue to fill the skills role, not the stat alignment to fill the face role and per the analysis above cannot adequately fill the tank role. This means that you need to look at damage and control roles and that's where the issues around stunning strike and the damage cliff at level 11 become very relevant.Just this change would already change the conversation a lot but note that by itself it is not sufficient. The monk is still 2AC behind where they'd need to fill a tank role and probably 1 AC behind where they need for at least an off-tank role. This suggests the problem is both HP and AC and the way that AC is calculated since you cannot pick CON over WIS.</blockquote>

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