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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kinematics" data-source="post: 8407564" data-attributes="member: 6932123">[SPOILER="Image"][/SPOILER]Looks like my estimate was right in the middle of that chart, around France-Denmark range.  Also, the overall range coincidentally matches what I suggested as the spread for grade 2 — 500 to 2500.And yeah, the infographics at the bottom are laughably inaccurate, but I'm still willing to accept the main chart for by-country approximations.Yes, getting into actual farm sizes really doesn't work well for by-square-foot purchasing and scaling.  As you scale up from a garden (backyard), to a small farm (a few to dozens of acres), to a ranch (hundreds of acres), to a plantation (1000+ acres), we can reach costs of 50 million gold, a couple orders of magnitude higher than the cost of a palace.At the same time, while the previous playtest thread explicitly denied that a stronghold was a "stronghold", one has to wonder if going beyond a useful personal access size kinda breaks the point of the feature.  It may be a bit of work to traverse the entirety of a palace or university, but that's nothing compared to trying to cover a 500 acre ranch.It may be that beyond a certain size, it just becomes "virtual space".  Perhaps you do actually have a 500 acre ranch, but beyond the first ~6 acres, it just doesn't matter as far as the Stronghold is concerned.  Of course 6 acres is barely a small farm, so there's still a conceptual and cost breakdown in there.If I were to try to adapt a type of virtualized space for farms, I'd probably do something like say that the cost of the farm in thousands of gold is the number of additional acres of farmland that your stronghold can support.  So a top-end grade 2 gets 1 extra acre; a grade 3 could have 10 acres; a grade 4 has 25 acres; and so on, up to a grade 8 having an extra 250+ acres.  They have no mechanical effect, and just support the mental picture you have of the size of the farm.Meanwhile the Farm stronghold itself would encompass things like the house, barn, stables, silos, equipment sheds, processing areas (sheep shearing, cow milking, wine pressing, etc), and whatever else is used to keep the farm running, along with whatever fields, orchards, paddocks, or whatever you want to keep close at hand to be available for personal attendance and inspection.Note: I'm assuming the Farm has a house to live in, but not a House-as-stronghold.  You'd need to buy that separately for that feat's effects, but not having it doesn't mean you don't have a place to sleep.This feels far more comfortable an idea for handling the scope of a farm without screwing with the existing rules.This also gets into the Stronghold Ability Score Increases table, where the House, Mansion, and Palace are listed as specific stronghold types. Which causes problems with the suggestion that they are just synonyms, particularly as Manor is not listed despite being a type of house of sufficiently high grade to get an ability score boost, whereas House itself actually does not (being defined as grade 2).Along with Manor being missing from the list, so is Library.  Given the small base size, it may grow into larger stronghold types as higher grades, such as School and University.  While this makes sense alongside Hut being missing, it doesn't mesh with things like Tavern, Shop, or Sacred Grove being present.Summary of unclear issues found so far:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">From [USER=5889]@Stalker0[/USER] — Whether a stronghold affects only a single person, or the entire party. Based on the wording of the rules for the House at grade 2, my impression is that the rules apply only to a single person, and that if a stronghold affects the entire party it will probably say so explicitly.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">From [USER=5889]@Stalker0[/USER] — What is the purpose of "external area"? Does it do anything mechanically?<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Also, is there a limit to the size of an external area, relative to the size of the base stronghold?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Also, are there any restrictions on what sorts of strongholds can be made sub-strongholds within an external area? For example, is it reasonable to put a library in an external area? And the design of an Encampment sounds like that shouldn't work when parked next to a house or mansion.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">From [USER=5889]@Stalker0[/USER] — Do the ability score increases at Grades 3 and 6 stack?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">From [USER=93670]@tetrasodium[/USER] — Does the short rest benefit of a grade 2 House apply when you are not resting at the house?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">From [USER=1125]@Tonguez[/USER] — The cost for the Island environment seems high compared to the other environments. Is this intended, and what is the justification?  Does this imply special properties of the island, such as complete isolation and no other inhabitants?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Do the sizes of a main stronghold and any contained sub-strongholds stack, particularly for the purposes of things like ability score increases?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Do sub-strongholds generate staff?  If so, and if you go over 100 staff, how do you determine which followers become available? Are they presumed to always come from your primary stronghold?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Do sub-strongholds need to pay the environmental multiplier and/or minimum cost when it has already been paid by the main stronghold?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Do all sub-strongholds share the same Quality of the main stronghold?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Security elements are listed alongside furnishings and staff, but it's not clear whether they are considered part of the Furnishings (and thus Quality), part of the Staff (influenced by Quality and Size), or something else altogether.  How are security elements defined and used?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Cost scaling and purchase incentives for Legendary vs the other Qualities seem screwy.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Does the minimum size described in the stronghold types listings apply to that stronghold type as a whole, or only inasmuch as the feat benefits come into play?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">General issues with the labeling of stronghold types, and how they are used in various tables.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">++ Can you change the size of a stronghold after it has been built? Particularly, can you continue to grow it over time?</li> </ul></blockquote>

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