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<blockquote data-quote="drothgery" data-source="post: 4870648" data-attributes="member: 360">The big problem with sandbox games in 4e is that it's often not immediately obvious in combat that you're completely outclassed and should run away -- especially if you've got your daily powers, action points, item dailies, and most of your healing surges available. And despite the DMG's recommendation that oppoents up to the PC's level + 5 should be okay, enemies higher level than the PCs tend to produce grind (which is why Stalker0's guide to anti-grind puts a 'never do this' flag down there).This is in contrast to the big problem with sandbox games in 3e, where running away without teleportation magic (or something similar) is quite difficult (most monsters can move faster than PCs), so about the only time running away is an effective strategy is by DM fiat (having the monsters choose not to pursue) or when mid-level PCs who have just acquired teleportation magic are facing high-level opponents (when 3.x PCs are high level, you worry more about the monsters being able to run away from them).I'm not sure how to deal with it, though. I mean, it may be helpful to have low-level elite/solo, mid-level standard, and high-level minion versions of the same monster (say, a hobgoblin soldier), and to use the right one when the PCs get around to facing them. But that's the only idea I've got.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="drothgery, post: 4870648, member: 360"] The big problem with sandbox games in 4e is that it's often not immediately obvious in combat that you're completely outclassed and should run away -- especially if you've got your daily powers, action points, item dailies, and most of your healing surges available. And despite the DMG's recommendation that oppoents up to the PC's level + 5 should be okay, enemies higher level than the PCs tend to produce grind (which is why Stalker0's guide to anti-grind puts a 'never do this' flag down there). This is in contrast to the big problem with sandbox games in 3e, where running away without teleportation magic (or something similar) is quite difficult (most monsters can move faster than PCs), so about the only time running away is an effective strategy is by DM fiat (having the monsters choose not to pursue) or when mid-level PCs who have just acquired teleportation magic are facing high-level opponents (when 3.x PCs are high level, you worry more about the monsters being able to run away from them). I'm not sure how to deal with it, though. I mean, it may be helpful to have low-level elite/solo, mid-level standard, and high-level minion versions of the same monster (say, a hobgoblin soldier), and to use the right one when the PCs get around to facing them. But that's the only idea I've got. [/QUOTE]

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