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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 7149574" data-attributes="member: 20323">I think you have what I would call an enlightened "The Fighter Fights" design theory. I hear you saying: "Yeah, the fighter fights, of course, and (s)he also can/should..."In my mind that's close enough to what I'm saying.However, not everyone advocating "The Fighter Fights" makes that leap you have to realizing that adding other things to the fighter is perfectly in keeping with the class' literary/mythological influences & its historical themes in older editions of D&D, and is actually desirable.Gotcha. Yeah, my gaming experience is definitely non-traditional. When I was playing 1e I was a kid and don't really remember the details. The formative D&D experiences that I remember most clearly came from the the Rules Cyclopedia, the Black Box, and AD&D2e.Actually, I had sub-classes in the back of my mind when I was giving that example about name level Paladin/Knight/Avenger traveling fighters in the Rules Cyclopedia.I think 3rd level is a good place to ask the question of a fighter player: OK, you've had some experience figuring out you character and learning the rules over 1st and 2nd level, now tell us what is your fighter fighting for?I see what you're saying – that the fighter's substantive difference is "silver buckshot", it's an aggregate of a bunch of features that, if examined individually, aren't substantially different than (and often outright replicated in) other classes. What's interesting for me personally is that I find Cunning Action creates a stronger identity for a rogue than Action Surge does for a fighter. I read Cunning Action and immediately my inner instigator/mischief-maker smiles, and all these ideas come pouring in about the tricks I could pull with it. However, I read Action Surge and I'm left without any clear sense of what it's supposed to be; only in play do I realize that, yes, it can reinforce the "fighter feel", but it doesn't leap off the page and inspire my imagination like Cunning Action. To me, Action Surge feels tepid, luke warm in comparison – even if it's mechanically a fine feature.As an extension of my argument/thesis, I'd say the fighter is disproportionately hamstrung in terms of unique features spotlighting Exploration & Interaction compared to all other classes in the PHB.Absolutely. We can agree that placing the mechanistic differentiation of the fighter class into Battle Master & Champion did a disservice to its subclasses, and thus to the Exploration & Interaction empowerment of the fighter.Touché. So you feel those are not worthwhile (or perhaps biased) questions to put front and center when designing the fighter class? What would your design questions be?Absolutely it does.Yep, that makes sense. That was my approach in designing "Camp Talents" for my fighter homebrew.That seems like a sound strategy to me.</blockquote>

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