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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 2183541" data-attributes="member: 996">I've never liked the way tumble works, it makes little sense to me that static skill check whould beat out even the greatest warrior.&nbsp; There's a number of good ideas floating around, but I think a simple implementation would be to have the tumble check sub for the tumbler's AC vs movement-based AoOs when tumbling.&nbsp; For that purpose, you could even add dodge bonuses (like mobility) to the tumble check.&nbsp; Tumbling through an occupied square could still take a check, but just to see if you get through or not.&nbsp; Tumbling wouldn't negate AoOs, just make them harder to land, so it wouldn't be a straight 'nerf' of tumbling, as it'd also make it effective at 'burning off' AoOs.&nbsp; Keep in mind that skill checks easily outstrip attack rolls - skills start at 4 and go up to 23, take a stat bonus, take synergy bonuses, and are cheap to buy up with magic items, with no upper limit.&nbsp; AB starts at 1 and goes to 20 (at best), takes a stat bonus, and is expensive to buy up with magic to a max of +5 (magic weapons).&nbsp; The tumbler will still win prettymuch automatically against lower-level types, will have a better than even chance vs same-level, but low-level tumblers won't be casually tumbling past high level warrior-types.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 2183541, member: 996"] I've never liked the way tumble works, it makes little sense to me that static skill check whould beat out even the greatest warrior. There's a number of good ideas floating around, but I think a simple implementation would be to have the tumble check sub for the tumbler's AC vs movement-based AoOs when tumbling. For that purpose, you could even add dodge bonuses (like mobility) to the tumble check. Tumbling through an occupied square could still take a check, but just to see if you get through or not. Tumbling wouldn't negate AoOs, just make them harder to land, so it wouldn't be a straight 'nerf' of tumbling, as it'd also make it effective at 'burning off' AoOs. Keep in mind that skill checks easily outstrip attack rolls - skills start at 4 and go up to 23, take a stat bonus, take synergy bonuses, and are cheap to buy up with magic items, with no upper limit. AB starts at 1 and goes to 20 (at best), takes a stat bonus, and is expensive to buy up with magic to a max of +5 (magic weapons). The tumbler will still win prettymuch automatically against lower-level types, will have a better than even chance vs same-level, but low-level tumblers won't be casually tumbling past high level warrior-types. [/QUOTE]

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