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<blockquote data-quote="Sledge" data-source="post: 2187916" data-attributes="member: 9324">That 1/2 movement rate effect is just 3 squares for a rogue remember.&nbsp; And the first square is free normally.&nbsp; So 2 bonus squares.&nbsp; To judge the effectiveness in combat you HAVE to consider the 25 DC as normal.&nbsp; 13th level for a monk or rogue to move around freely just doesn't seem like such a big deal.&nbsp; If you cripple it beyond this level remember the skill IS only useful for the monks.&nbsp; Even a rogue is gonna forget about the skill if he never gets more effective at it.&nbsp; Any of the opposed systems would require an equally obscure skill to be even marginally acceptable.&nbsp; Opposing with BAB is just a knee jerk reaction to keep those naughty tumblers from being effective.&nbsp; If you find the skill to be too powerful because of how you run your campaign, then consider whether it is the skill that is broken or the campaign.&nbsp; 4 on 1 matches WILL involve the party having command of the battlefield.&nbsp; That is as it should be.&nbsp; Any situation where the party is against multiple targets ups that DC.&nbsp; Once you get a couple of opponents the dc will be several above the situation.&nbsp; That speedy monk with speedy boots can probably move around more easily without tumbling anyways.&nbsp; The rogue shouldn't commit suicide for 1 sneak attack. (I.E. tumbling into the middle of combat.)So what are the REAL abuses of tumble?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sledge, post: 2187916, member: 9324"] That 1/2 movement rate effect is just 3 squares for a rogue remember. And the first square is free normally. So 2 bonus squares. To judge the effectiveness in combat you HAVE to consider the 25 DC as normal. 13th level for a monk or rogue to move around freely just doesn't seem like such a big deal. If you cripple it beyond this level remember the skill IS only useful for the monks. Even a rogue is gonna forget about the skill if he never gets more effective at it. Any of the opposed systems would require an equally obscure skill to be even marginally acceptable. Opposing with BAB is just a knee jerk reaction to keep those naughty tumblers from being effective. If you find the skill to be too powerful because of how you run your campaign, then consider whether it is the skill that is broken or the campaign. 4 on 1 matches WILL involve the party having command of the battlefield. That is as it should be. Any situation where the party is against multiple targets ups that DC. Once you get a couple of opponents the dc will be several above the situation. That speedy monk with speedy boots can probably move around more easily without tumbling anyways. The rogue shouldn't commit suicide for 1 sneak attack. (I.E. tumbling into the middle of combat.) So what are the REAL abuses of tumble? [/QUOTE]

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