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<blockquote data-quote="Sledge" data-source="post: 2189556" data-attributes="member: 9324">Are you sure you are doing your math right?&nbsp; You speak of &quot;lines&quot; which leads me to assume to do know what they are.&nbsp; In a closed room the line effect means you HAVE to go through the opponents (DC25).&nbsp; In an open area the monk can spend their full movement and go around the line (not tumbling).&nbsp; The only time you should have tumble at DC 15 come into play is in a loose formation where there is a 5 foot square between opponents (which is really about 8 feet apart) and the second line is still fairly close by.&nbsp; This is a situation where getting around is already easy.&nbsp; If your monk only uses it in easy situations then of course the monk won't be upping it.&nbsp; As characters increase in levels, their DCs don't simply increase, their actual challenges increase.&nbsp; For instance get a couple large baddies and some friends with reach for the front lines.&nbsp; Suddenly the monk has to roll 4 times to get through at 85% then 75% then 65% and finally 55%.&nbsp; Chances are the monk is going to come up with a different plan.&nbsp; As you said the monk is never particularly effective in this tactic anyway.&nbsp; If you really are getting sick of this stop putting the casters within 20 feet of the front lines.&nbsp; Someone that can blow people up at a 1000ft away has no business being so close up espescially with dimension door, telekinesis, fly etc...As for the fighter sucking against reach.&nbsp; Either get a reach weapon, get enlarged, or fix* mobility.&nbsp; It isn't tumble's fault you almost died.*Mobility is designed as a weak feat simply because of it leading to Spring attack as well as whirlwind.&nbsp; Perhaps too weak, but I'm not sure.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sledge, post: 2189556, member: 9324"] Are you sure you are doing your math right? You speak of "lines" which leads me to assume to do know what they are. In a closed room the line effect means you HAVE to go through the opponents (DC25). In an open area the monk can spend their full movement and go around the line (not tumbling). The only time you should have tumble at DC 15 come into play is in a loose formation where there is a 5 foot square between opponents (which is really about 8 feet apart) and the second line is still fairly close by. This is a situation where getting around is already easy. If your monk only uses it in easy situations then of course the monk won't be upping it. As characters increase in levels, their DCs don't simply increase, their actual challenges increase. For instance get a couple large baddies and some friends with reach for the front lines. Suddenly the monk has to roll 4 times to get through at 85% then 75% then 65% and finally 55%. Chances are the monk is going to come up with a different plan. As you said the monk is never particularly effective in this tactic anyway. If you really are getting sick of this stop putting the casters within 20 feet of the front lines. Someone that can blow people up at a 1000ft away has no business being so close up espescially with dimension door, telekinesis, fly etc... As for the fighter sucking against reach. Either get a reach weapon, get enlarged, or fix* mobility. It isn't tumble's fault you almost died. *Mobility is designed as a weak feat simply because of it leading to Spring attack as well as whirlwind. Perhaps too weak, but I'm not sure. [/QUOTE]

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