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<blockquote data-quote="Croesus" data-source="post: 7120725" data-attributes="member: 35019">Yeah, this sounds an awful lot like the early D&amp;D I played, which was very much in the Gygax DM vs. Players style. I personally wouldn't enjoy it. After all, if there are no limits, the dungeon (GM) can win every time, and any player victory is only because the GM allows it. That said, you can somewhat have both. Don't make the dungeon omniscient - it doesn't know the party has a wizard able to cast feather fall until it actually happens. It doesn't know the party has trouble with traps until they fail to locate/disarm a few. In other words, it learns as the party pushes deeper. That's much more reasonable and will force the players to try different solutions (and possibly hold back on some capabilities) in order to fool the dungeon. The key is to create a situation where the players can succeed based on their decisions, which means there have to be limits on what the dungeon can do, and why. Give it a personality, or a directive, which can be deduced by the party and possibly used against it. Give the dungeon tendencies, just as characters have, so the players can game-plan against the dungeon. Give the party clues, whether through research or within the dungeon, so they can craft strategies. Then it's not GM vs. Players, it's Dungeon vs. Party.&nbsp; As I constantly tell my players, I (the GM) will never try to kill off their characters. However, the NPCs and monsters will, to the best of their abilities. Plan accordingly.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Croesus, post: 7120725, member: 35019"] Yeah, this sounds an awful lot like the early D&D I played, which was very much in the Gygax DM vs. Players style. I personally wouldn't enjoy it. After all, if there are no limits, the dungeon (GM) can win every time, and any player victory is only because the GM allows it. That said, you can somewhat have both. Don't make the dungeon omniscient - it doesn't know the party has a wizard able to cast [I]feather fall[/I] until it actually happens. It doesn't know the party has trouble with traps until they fail to locate/disarm a few. In other words, it learns as the party pushes deeper. That's much more reasonable and will force the players to try different solutions (and possibly hold back on some capabilities) in order to fool the dungeon. The key is to create a situation where the players can succeed based on their decisions, which means there have to be limits on what the dungeon can do, and why. Give it a personality, or a directive, which can be deduced by the party and possibly used against it. Give the dungeon tendencies, just as characters have, so the players can game-plan against the dungeon. Give the party clues, whether through research or within the dungeon, so they can craft strategies. Then it's not GM vs. Players, it's Dungeon vs. Party. As I constantly tell my players, I (the GM) will never try to kill off their characters. However, the NPCs and monsters will, to the best of their abilities. Plan accordingly. [/QUOTE]

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