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<blockquote data-quote="HammerMan" data-source="post: 8568736" data-attributes="member: 84112">and those people who don't think my god exsists can also (at high level) go meet him or her or it (plane shift) or even at lower level depending on how common planar travel is.yup, I don't care how powerful it is, it is an angel it is at the very least 100x better evidence then any real world person of faith has today.keep this in mind in a moment... you want to say someone CAN for a THEORY if they choose to... contact other plane, plane shift, I am sure there are more I am not looking up all the spells right now... but again it doesn't HAVE to be YOUR power... in any world with common planar travel you could just 'go' to heaven. Forget FR... time of troubles and many other things makes it WAY too out of the water for this discussion.yeah I assume we all do. here are the first two sentinces you didn't quote... I have a hard time... In My MIND... these qualifiers came before what you quoted.but earlier you said &quot;one can form a cogent theory that the celestial didn't really exist&quot; so that is YOUR personal assumptions, YOUR own head cannon... I mean I even played that once (kind of). I played a wizard who didn't think gods were gods... &quot;Yeah you get spells so do I.&quot; &quot;Yeah the angels are that guys henchmen, they say what he pays them to say&quot; &quot;Yeah he is powerful, but so am I...if I give spells to someone am I a god?&quot; and my favorite. &quot;Yeah he's powerful, but he can die. He doens't know all... he just isnt a god&quot;none of that really mattered to the cleric or paladin in the game though.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="HammerMan, post: 8568736, member: 84112"] and those people who don't think my god exsists can also (at high level) go meet him or her or it (plane shift) or even at lower level depending on how common planar travel is. yup, I don't care how powerful it is, it is an angel it is at the very least 100x better evidence then any real world person of faith has today. keep this in mind in a moment... you want to say someone CAN for a THEORY if they choose to... contact other plane, plane shift, I am sure there are more I am not looking up all the spells right now... but again it doesn't HAVE to be YOUR power... in any world with common planar travel you could just 'go' to heaven. Forget FR... time of troubles and many other things makes it WAY too out of the water for this discussion. yeah I assume we all do. here are the first two sentinces you didn't quote... I have a hard time... In My MIND... these qualifiers came before what you quoted. but earlier you said "one can form a cogent theory that the celestial didn't really exist" so that is YOUR personal assumptions, YOUR own head cannon... I mean I even played that once (kind of). I played a wizard who didn't think gods were gods... "Yeah you get spells so do I." "Yeah the angels are that guys henchmen, they say what he pays them to say" "Yeah he is powerful, but so am I...if I give spells to someone am I a god?" and my favorite. "Yeah he's powerful, but he can die. He doens't know all... he just isnt a god" none of that really mattered to the cleric or paladin in the game though. [/QUOTE]

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