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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Treantmonklvl20" data-source="post: 5629463" data-attributes="member: 55582">My mistake, I thought the cape fit the robe slot.  Have to get a robe of the mountebank I guessAgreed, though I would point out that Haste does ALOT more damage in most circumstances, and often doing less damage now, rather than more in the long run, gets overrated.  The wounded guy hits just as hard as before he was wounded, and fireball isn't dropping any level appropriate enemies.Against a single enemy or even 2 enemies it's not even close - Haste will out damage Fireball in the round you cast it with most party makeups.  All those other rounds of bonuses are just that, a bonus.With more opponents it gets closer (on round 1), but still, in the long run Haste is out damaging Fireball several times over.Here are the numbers broken down:Fireball: Let's say you are level 6, when you cast fireball, it will do 6d6 damage.  That is (6x3.5) points of damage on average, or 21 per opponent hit.Slow down though.  You aren't going to average that much.  Your opponent gets a saving throw for 1/2 damage.  If we say 50/50 chance to save, then the average damage drops to about 15.75 points per opponent hit.  Consider what a 6th level Fighter does for damage, or a flanking rogue, or a Paladin, or a Wildshaped Druid.  The damage isn't terrible, but far from impressive.It gets worse though.  We talked about saving throws, but what about evasion?  Most opponents don't have it, but those that do often mix it with a good Ref save (Monks and Rogues, or Rangers at higher levels for example).  Let's just say, don't throw fireballs at suspected Rogues.  Unfortunately, often enemy NPC's are a mix of classes, and chances are good that one has evasion.That said, evasion is extremely rare when compared to fire resistance, which competes with cold resistance for the most common elemental resistance in the game.  A mere 5 points reduces your average damage to 10.75 per opponent.  10 points and you are begging for scraps.Then there is Spell resistance.  This is very rare at lower levels, but continually becomes more common as your enemies CR increases.Haste: Every one of your allies gets an extra attack when full attacking for 6 rounds (using our example of a 6th level caster).Obviously it's hard to say how much extra damage that will be.  Not all your allies may be full attacking this round, or next.  Also, the average inflicted damage by your allies will vary greatly depending on your party.Think though of your most recent party at 6th level.  Thinking of mine, I know there was a Falchion wielding Paladin who was averaging over 20 points of damage per hit at that point (more when he was smiting).  A Haste on him alone would provide 20 points of quick damage.More than that though, his first 2 attacks in the round improved chances to hit by 1/20th.  That means his normal attacks would be doing more damage on average too.Of course I'm forgetting his Warhorse, which also would get an extra attack and have its regular attacks improved.I would expect at least a 25 point of damage boost per round from that character alone.Of course you are hasting more than one guy (unless you are a party of 2), so that's extra damage for every ally affectedSR doesn't matter, elemental resistance doesn't matter, no saving throw, no evasion, mixing enemies and allies doesn't ruin your shot.Also you can apply that extra damage tactically (gang up on opponents), as spreading out damage equally is usually bad tactics.Fireball is OK for large groups of fodder, but against primary enemies, you can usually do much better.  Haste isn't my favorite 3rd level spell (I tend to favor battlefield controls), but as a damage dealer, it will usually outshine a fireball.</blockquote>

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