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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7328172" data-attributes="member: 42582">I just discovered this thread, the precursor to [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION]'s combat/skill challenge thread!It seems like a lot of bases have been covered, so I'll just make a couple of comments based on actual play experience.The closest I've come to this was running my version of an encounter in H2 Thunderspire Labyrinth - the one on the other side of the crazy pit with the dragon rising from it etc.I just had a look to see if I had notes on it, but the only file I could find was stats for the gnoll leader - the rest must have been handwritten and somewhere in a pile of old campaign materials. But my memory is this: the PCs open the door to the room, and the gnoll is in the finishing stages of a ritual.The ritual invovles the sacrifice of two prisoners - it was rescuing these prisoners that had actually led the PCs to this place (they were the last of a group of a dozen or so victims of goblin raiders - some were rescued from goblins, the ones sold to duergar were bought back - the beginning of the PCs' alliance with the dueragar, but the ones that had been given to the gnolls had to be rescued).I know that - following the lead of the H2 encouner write-up - I had a requirement that the gnoll leader use a certain number of actions to progress the ritual. And there were steps the players could take - I'm assuming, but don't actually remember, that these were checks in a skill challenge - to stop the ritual. Plus they could physically take the prisoners out of their circldes. (I[ve just had a quick look at the module - maybe is was enough to move the prisoners, with no skill challenge dimension - that's how its written up, but I may have tweaked it. Memory fails.)I can't remember the exact terrain of the room, but I know that it had a "gauntlet" feel, in the sense that getting across the room to rescue the prisoners required taking hurt from a lot of the enemies inside.This meant that at the start of the encounter the PCs turtled, leaving their defenders to "tank" the enemies, with the result that one of the prisoners died. This then galvanised them a bit, and they then took the risks required to rescue the other prisoner.I think this reinforces on of [MENTION=22362]MoutonRustique[/MENTION]'s points - when a skill challenge (or some other non-combat goal) is part of a combat, you can use the minutiae of the combat mechanics in an effective way. What I mean is that, in a normal non-combat situation a fictional positioning requirement of "You must be next to the brazier" is typically nothing but colour; but in a combat situation it becomes demanding in itself, as you have to get there without being slid or pushed off course, blocked by an enemy, etc. And if you have to pick something up when you get there, well then you need at least a minor action left over; etc.At higher levels, when mobility increases, this is probably more likely to become about resource consumption (eg using up flight or teleport options to get where they want to be); but at Heroic tier it's a real consideration in itself.Another thing I remember from that chapter of H2: a character with good athletics can jump over creatures (especially swarms, which allow being moved through). I remember the fighter jumping over a pack of hyenas as the nipped at his heels (their opportunity attack) - my view is that jumping over a land-based swarm of "horizontal" creatures (like a hyena pack, swarm of rats, etc) avoids the difficult terrain that they would normally constiute. In our game, the fighter just wanted to set up a flank on the pack (I think - it's an old memory); but you could imagine doing the same thing to get to the widget that is crucial for the skill challenge, and then you have the extra amusement of the fighter being there but the widget needing an Arcana check to operate! (This is an example of why I think people who say that skill challenges always involve players just using their best skils aren't doing a very interesting job with their establishment of fictional positioning!)I guess the relevance of the previous paragraph is just as another example of how at Heroic tier you can use pretty prosaic elements of your combat encounter design to create opportunities for interesting action declarations, with real stakes (it's funny if the fighter lands on his *ss in the middle of the hyenas!; it's even funnier if it's the wizard, who was trying to make it to the obviously magical widget!), which interface with the fictional positioning for your overall situation.</blockquote>

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