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<blockquote data-quote="Rystil Arden" data-source="post: 2952289" data-attributes="member: 29014"><p>The Sorcerer already sucks compared to just the core classes--that isn't really a fair reason to disallow non-cores.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It either needs to not work on someone with an 8th-level Mind Blank spell up that makes them immune to the 9th-level Mind Control Powers of Master Telepaths (but somehow not the 1st-level Knight), or it needs to automatically fail against an opponent who has determined ahead of time that no matter what happens, he or she will never attack the Knight first, ever. It makes no sense to keep both. Since the opponent who decided ahead of time not to attack the Knight is subjective, I'd prefer just making it Su and Mind-Affecting. If the players can go to the trouble to buy a separate book for the class, they can check a minor errata we make that probably won't come up. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Me too! Changeling Beguiler ready to go if/when it is accepted! If it isn't, she/he/it'll be a Telepath instead.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That could be cool. Eberron has way different flavour for many races than the default setting, so I disagree with the Races line other than Eberron on flavour grounds, but I would definitely approve something like this if balanced (and yes, I consider allowing something more powerful to be balanced if it is for a poor race combo)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why? They're Conjuration. You can bar yourself from Evocation and use these anyway. In fact, this line of spells completes a group of spells that allow you to do this and still be combat effective which is sad for Evocation because Conjuration has other cool stuff and BOOM is the only thing Evocation does. Making the Conjuration spells uber-better as well was effectively spitting on Evocation after already marginalising it. I'm okay with marginalising it, but let's not spit on it too.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Limiting it to next melee attack would still break your game. So would a Greater version at 4th. Khyber, so would a Greater version at 7th that does what the 2nd level spell does! It would just take longer to level up that far. What wouldn't break ytour game was a 2nd-level version that had a standard action casting time and applied only to your next attack--and it wouldn't break your game because it takes a while for that to become better than True Strike and it has the same casting time. It would eventually become better than True Strike though even so. A fair 2nd-level spell.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This eliminates the uber-brokenness, but it is still way too powerful for a feat. It's nearly the Incantatrix's capstone to do this--it should not be a 1st-level Cleric feat.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Rystil Arden, post: 2952289, member: 29014"] The Sorcerer already sucks compared to just the core classes--that isn't really a fair reason to disallow non-cores. It either needs to not work on someone with an 8th-level Mind Blank spell up that makes them immune to the 9th-level Mind Control Powers of Master Telepaths (but somehow not the 1st-level Knight), or it needs to automatically fail against an opponent who has determined ahead of time that no matter what happens, he or she will never attack the Knight first, ever. It makes no sense to keep both. Since the opponent who decided ahead of time not to attack the Knight is subjective, I'd prefer just making it Su and Mind-Affecting. If the players can go to the trouble to buy a separate book for the class, they can check a minor errata we make that probably won't come up. Me too! Changeling Beguiler ready to go if/when it is accepted! If it isn't, she/he/it'll be a Telepath instead. That could be cool. Eberron has way different flavour for many races than the default setting, so I disagree with the Races line other than Eberron on flavour grounds, but I would definitely approve something like this if balanced (and yes, I consider allowing something more powerful to be balanced if it is for a poor race combo) Why? They're Conjuration. You can bar yourself from Evocation and use these anyway. In fact, this line of spells completes a group of spells that allow you to do this and still be combat effective which is sad for Evocation because Conjuration has other cool stuff and BOOM is the only thing Evocation does. Making the Conjuration spells uber-better as well was effectively spitting on Evocation after already marginalising it. I'm okay with marginalising it, but let's not spit on it too. Limiting it to next melee attack would still break your game. So would a Greater version at 4th. Khyber, so would a Greater version at 7th that does what the 2nd level spell does! It would just take longer to level up that far. What wouldn't break ytour game was a 2nd-level version that had a standard action casting time and applied only to your next attack--and it wouldn't break your game because it takes a while for that to become better than True Strike and it has the same casting time. It would eventually become better than True Strike though even so. A fair 2nd-level spell. This eliminates the uber-brokenness, but it is still way too powerful for a feat. It's nearly the Incantatrix's capstone to do this--it should not be a 1st-level Cleric feat. [/QUOTE]
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