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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mercule" data-source="post: 7758472" data-attributes="member: 5100">The important piece is that there is a line. Where that line gets drawn may vary by group, but there's a line. Part of the GM's job is to challenge the players and their characters. I'm talking about a combination of GMs who intentionally create encounters they don't think the PCs can survive, set up traps/puzzles that show how much smarter than the players they are, etc. I'm absolutely willing to kill off a PC or two. In fact, I think a very real chance of PC death is part of what makes the game interesting. I just keep it in the "challenge" window, rather than the "did you see what I did to you?" window.I think I'm talking about the "good-faith play" thing, here. I once had a player ask me to leave the table so the group could plan how to sneak into a castle (or some such) without tipping their hand to me. My response was something along the lines of "Can you use this mini to show me where your last GM touched you?" I was totally floored by the request and found it highly inappropriate. We aren't playing Fortress America. My tactics are already largely set, other than as reactions. Just go ahead and plan. Also, if you do come up with something totally unexpected, I'd like to have a bit of a heads-up to figure out what the logical outcome is, rather than stammering and stuttering -- you're going to wait on my decision, either way. Creativity is awesome and I generally reward it, even if it means the BBEG turns into a non-event. Just don't explicitly try to turn the game into a competition with the GM. The GM is the referee and final arbiter of the rules. The GM builds the setting, including being the keeper of house rules. The GM creates the adventures. Even if using published settings and adventures, the GM has the final word on how to interpret and/or when to ignore any given line. There's, literally, no way to beat the GM if it's an actual competition. The GM needs to take that responsibility seriously and both sides need to not ratchet it above the level of a game.As a note, while I suspect almost ever GM has spent some time discovering where that line is, my objection isn't from anything that's specifically happened at any table I've sat at regularly. I have had a couple of really off one-shots where the GM came off as a bit of an ass-hat. Mostly, though, my thoughts come from having experienced players show up at my table almost having some sort of gamer PTSD. I don't know what their prior GMs did, but they sure looked like victims of abuse.</blockquote>

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