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Message: <blockquote data-quote="kaomera" data-source="post: 3589509" data-attributes="member: 38357">I can't speak for anyone else, but perhaps I over-use and/or mis-use the terms "powergamer" and "rules-lawyer". I don't see either as a neutral descriptor, in my mind they are derogatory in and of themselves. Someone who can make a well-designed character that exploits the rules to the fullest is a good player. Someone who bends the rules, tries to sneak things onto his character sheet, uses material from products "not in use" for a game, and/or continually argues every rules call that is not 100% in their favor is a powergamer. Someone who knows the rules well and can correct me when I make a bad call is a good player. Someone who has to "correct" every decision I make, always insists that every rule be read in their favor, repeatedly refuses to accept calls to keep the game going and deal with rules issues later, and/or tries to insist that their interpretation of the rules should trump the DM (and/or printed game materials) is a rules-lawyer.If I'm the DM, then that's who I am to tell other people how to have fun, or more specifically not to kill my fun. If I'm a player and the DM or another player is killing my fun (and, in the later case, the DM is not dealing with the issue / we can't come to some compromise) I'm going to end up leaving the game. Playing with a real Powergamer or Rules-Lawyer is just as little fun as playing in a game where an all-powerful DMPC hogs the spotlight. Now, this I can mostly agree with you on. I have seen a few cases where a DM will include tougher than normal challenges specifically to challenge one particular player. I've even pulled it off myself, once or twice. But I'm always a bit cautions (well, really, nervous) about it because, as you pointed out, it can quickly reach the point where it's unfair and/or just hurts the other players. But when it works you end up with the player in question getting to really show off what they can do with their character! Unfortunately there are also cases where a DM will throw stuff at a powerful character either to "knock him down a peg" or just to outright smear him across the landscape. I don't agree with this method of DMing, and worse such a DM rarely really cares what happens to the other PCs in the process...As long as they're not ruining the fun of anyone else, I agree. But there are those players who really do expect their PCs to be able to do everything and will not willingly give up the spotlight to another player for any reason. I haven't exactly seen many players like this, but those I have seem genuinely unaware that they really are ruining the game for others. Usually they blame the other players' inability to enjoy watching them run around and do everything on them being bad players (somehow). And if they actually fail at something, then the DM is just out to get them...Now, given that there are few players who are really like this, you might think that there shouldn't be so much venom ready to be spewed at the merest mention of Powergaming, Rules-Lawyering, etc. However, if you've ever actually experienced having to sit across from this type of player, it tends to get burned into your mind. I'd argue that it's the same thing as with bad DMPCs and/or serious railroading by a DM: it doesn't come up much (and most players / DMs who fall into one of these categories are liable to change their ways after a bit of constructive feedback), but it always makes the list of "worst gaming experiences ever".Again, IMHO I'd say that neither of you deserves the title of Rules-Lawyer.</blockquote>

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