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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Generico" data-source="post: 4043712" data-attributes="member: 59693">Sell points:1) Monsters and NPCs don't have to follow the same creation rules as characters.2) System is designed from the ground up for multiple monsters per-encounter, even at low levels.3) CR system is gone.  Replaced with a power gauge that involves less guesswork and smoother math when building encounters.4) While prepping is easier, so is improvising.  The fact that almost every character attribute has half level as a base means that figuring out attacks, skills, AC, other defenses, etc, becomes much faster and more accurate.  On top of that, magic items don't add enhancement bonuses to stats, which makes improvising NPCs with magic items MUCH easier.  His improv will be faster, and more accurate, especially when dealing with high level NPCs.5) You're married to him.  If he's still unwilling to be open minded, I'm sure there's some sort of "leverage" you could use to make him more willing, if ya know what I mean *nudge nudge*. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Druids probably won't be in the PHB, but when they are released, they'll be much more fun to play.  More wildshape, a lot more.Sell points:1) 4e combat encounters progress more quickly as a result of smoother combat mechanics.  That means more time for roleplaying.2) 4e has enough emphasis on roleplaying to actually make game mechanics that go beyond "roll diplomacy...you win the argument".3) Bards will probably not be in PHB, but the Warlord fills the same role as face of the party, while being MUCH more useful in combat encounters.4) 4th edition has much less emphasis on magic items, and much more emphasis on the character itself.  Less emphasis on loot (a decidedly NOT WoW feature) means players won't feel as though they're losing out by not being in combat all the time.  More emphasis on the character means characters are far more customizable.  You can represent more of your character's personality and story with actual game mechanics, meaning that those aspects of your character can have greater impact on the game.Guessing that you don't really have one of these, but anyway, the selling point for wizards is obviously that you don't run out of magic after 1 or 2 encounters.This guy sounds like a typical "D&D elitist".  This is the same type that got mad when they removed THAC0 after 2nd edition.  His reasons for not liking 4th edition without even playing it mostly boil down to "I have years of experience with the current version, and I like the feeling of superiority that I get when I understand overly complicated rules that newer players don't.  I also like knowing that these rules increase my game's exclusivity.  I don't want to start over with new rules that don't give me a sense of superiority."  You'll have a hard time selling 4th edition to this guy until you just start playing a game and he tries it because he doesn't want to be left out.Sell points:1) First of all, WoW is a medieval fantasy RPG, it's based on D&D, not the other way around.  WoW is the way it is because if it were exactly like 3.5, nobody would ever play a non spell casting character.  WoTC realizes this too, and thus they have also brought non spell casters more inline with spell casters.  That improvement should not be exclusive to MMOs just because WoW came out before 4th edition.  Characters with more options are more fun, period.2) The level progression goes up to 30 because they wanted to include epic level play in the core rules.  In 3.5, epic level play is separate from the core rules, and frankly, the epic level rules suck.  There's a reason why a lot of campaigns just stop at 20th level.  The only reason D&D has always been 20 levels is because a long time ago, Gary Gygax decided 20 was a nice round number.  That's it - there's no mathematical reason to stop at 20 - it's just a number somebody picked one day for no particular reason at all.3) If you'd been playing 4th edition for years, you'd probably be epic level by now.  When you got to epic level, you'd have had nicely integrated rules for that level of play, instead of rules in a supplement book that arbitrarily change a number of fundamental game systems, and turn spell casters into demigods.Hope that helps.  Realistically though, you're probably just gonna have to buy the books and run a game to get them to accept 4th edition.  If you can't wait that long, and your group has any interest in Star Wars, you could always pick up the Star Wars Saga Edition book and run a game of that.  It's as close to 4th edition as you can get right now in terms of rules and how the game plays.</blockquote>

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