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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 6234105" data-attributes="member: 92511">This thread is brought to you in part by  @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=59082" target="_blank">Mercurius</a>  ' thread on a Player Primer.It is also brought to you in part with my own indecision and wonderings on the best way introduce a new game setting & system.I have a Player's Handbook, nearly complete for my World of Orea RPG [to be played, specifically in my decades old setting of Orea, but designed in such a way that the system could be used in a variety of settings...and the setting could be used, independently with any system of your choice]. The classes are each 2 page spreads, detailing what the class is [in Orea], that class' features, and a few variants on the theme. The rules take significantly less pages, I assure you, and the spells, traditionally included in the player material, are pulled out into an individual book of spells and powers - since DMs need access to this info as well. I am striving, with all of the editing and layout magic I can muster to keep the PHB to 64 pages. In a random thought experiment, I thought of putting together a basics/primer kind of short manual (not all of the classes, not all of the races, etc...)...and this has led me to question the entire system. I have "stat blocks" of classes that take, about, a quarter to a third of a page. The rules, obviously, would take up just as much room. But the overall product would be significantly simpler and less detailed on the world-elements.So...I find myself wondering, how much "buy in" can really be expected? There's no set answer of course. Certain types of players require -well, "desire" as none of it is "required"- less or more. New players might find less to be better/easier...Experienced players who prefer various playstyles might want more...or outright different than is detailed.But, all in all, should not "buy in" be minimal? Or not!?I mean, the players are all there for a reason. Whether they are new to the game and want to try it out, experienced looking just for the fun/challenge of play, a love for D&D-type games, a love of the fantasy genre in general, a love of Harry Potter and nothing else, the social element...or just wanting to do something/share an activity/evening with their significant other...everyone's there for a reason. Presumably, they want to be there to play an rpg.So, how much material is "too much"? How much is expecting too much from folks to buy in? And how does one decide/draw the lines?Is a 16 page primer, automatically, more accessible? Is the 64 page "full starter" manual, automatically, required or optional? Is the 128-320 pp. tome, with setting details of cultures, religions, nations, non-standard PC and/or NPC races that are present in the world, etc. etc. etc..., automatically, the 'best way" [and yes, "best" is completely subjective]?How much "buy in" do you expect from your players? How much "buy in" are you willing to give them? Or none at all, just roll 'em up and play and see where it goes? How much are you willing to exert yourself to buy in to a game you are not running? Or to buy in to a setting you might or might not want to use [won't know til you've read/bought it]?It's all completely subjective, yet seems exceptionally necessary/crucial to success...for both the success of the individual home table/campaign as well as the [much] larger material concerns of producing an entire new game or setting. I can only assume that this is something the folks working on 5e are examining in some detail...though I haven't seen any of that yet [what 5e is doing isn't really me concern, as 1) they have a LOT more people working on things than just myself and 2) I am not seeking to emulate 5e D&D, but would like to succeed, myself.]So...yeah...any, all, different thoughts on "buy in"?Go!</blockquote>

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