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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Shin Okada" data-source="post: 3919824" data-attributes="member: 1956">#Centaur barb 10 has two fewer hit die (and four of those dice are two sizes smaller)2 fewer HD is still bad when spells like blasphemy is cast. But in regard to HP, Centaur has +4 Con. That is +14 hp at this level and make the total hp closer.#only two attacks (the natural attack is useless at that level)The 3rd attack is done at -10. Depending on enemy, but it is often useless against worthy enemy of someone's level. And think about the highest attack bonus. Assume both Centaur and Human puts 18 to their strength. Now Centaur Barb 10 has 26 +2= str 28 (+9 bonus). Human Barb 16 has 18+4- str 22(+6 bonus). With the difference in BAB (2) and size penalty (-1), both barbarians have the same highest attack bonus. And as Centaur is using one size larger weapon and is stronger, each swing inflicts much damages. Combined with hoof attacks, I say Centaur wins in the total damage output against most foe. And this is when they make a full attack. If they move and attack, centaur is simply stronger in offence.#one less feat, significantly fewer skill points,  But much faster (now 60 feet) and +4 to almost all the rolls regarding special attacks due to their size. Even has +4 more against tripping because of 4 legs. And +3 natural armor is simply good. # worse fort save,Not quite. 16th level barbarian's Base saves are Fort +10, Ref +5, Will +5. Centaur Barb 10's Base Saves are Fort +8, Ref +7, Will +7. With +4 Con, the Centaur and the Human has now the same Fort save. And combined with +4 Dex and +2 Wis, Centaur have much higher Ref and Will.#no reach despite being large size, Human does not have long reach, too. #they don't even know COMMON without a positive Int (which has a negative modifier for Centaurs) or spending two of their limited skill points.But they speak sylvan and Elven. It may cause problem or maybe better then just speaking common. It all depends on campaign. And spending 2 skill points are not big deal.#Then they lose 6 levels of barbarian, which is 2 uses of rage (leaving them only 3, which isn't even enough to use it every encounter in a 'standard' day),  greater rage, indomitable will, and two steps of trap sense.Why rage per day is less, each rage lasts longer thanks to high Con. And difference in damage output is still on the centaur's side due to the bigger weapon (say, 3d6 instead of 2d6) and higher strength. Human Barbarian in Greater Rage still has lower STR and Will save comparing to a centaur in normal Rage.#reduction in DR by 2,Yeah. But while it has 2 less DR, it has +4 AC in total (-1 size, +2 Dex, +3 natural). #Oh yeah, not to mention: just try playing a centaur in a standard dungeon. 5' door? You're screwed. Have to climb a rope? Better hope the wizard has two fly spells prepared (one coming, one going)! Charging? Yeah right.Well, centaur should use squeezing rule if he tries to move through a 5-foot door. But large space means he can cover 10-foot door by himself alone. Sometime it is good. Sometime it is bad.As for climbing, by 16th-ECL it is not difficult to have some means of flying and such. Potion of Flying is just 750gp. And, don't underestimate Centaur's Jumping. They gets bonuses from high strength and high speed.#By your definition, any race with LA is 'not meant to be effective as casters'. So what you're saying is that you should only play a caster if you are playing a LA+0 race.Basically, yes. Power-gaming wise. In most cases LA +0 is the way to go. #LA does NOT work well at higher levels. ESPECIALLY for spellcasters. The only class LA doesn't bother terribly much at high levels is Fighter, and as I mentioned Fighters are such a throwaway that anything that helps them is good.No. LA does not work for spellcasters AT ANY LEVEL. And even for fighter types, LA is a big burden at lower level. But with good combination of  race and classes, med-to-higher level warriors are OK as they are now.So, If you want to make LA+X race playable as a caster, removing LA at higher level is not the way to go. It will still leave lower-level LA +X casters in poor position. While at higher level, simply makes LA +X races (now with reduced or eliminated LA) stronger than others.By the way, if do not compare a pure warrior type against a pure caster type. In a duel, a mage tend to win. Still, A mage can't adventure alone.</blockquote>

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