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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nonlethal Force" data-source="post: 3626784" data-attributes="member: 35788">I'll second a vote for Buy the Numbers.  If you want to see a more reasonable answer as to why ... see my response in the poll in the General Forum on how quickly characters are gaining feats in various games.As to the above critique on Point Buy Numbers (and I suppose Buy the Numbers) ... I can only comment on Buy the Numbers.  With regard to that system, I would have to say that I totally agree with it's assessment of the possibility of abuse but totally disagree that it is any problem at all.  No way can this abuse not be handled by the DM ... and the abuse quickly becomes self-policing and the players learn that characters built on abuses die quickly.  Any DM that is worth playing under is going to be able to take advantage of any method the players try to abuse the system.For example, suppose a player wants to jack up the BAB, so they buy two hit die worth of hitpoints before they technically have enough experience to be a second level character in a traditional D&D game.  In order to do so, they'll not only have to spent more XP than "normal" in order to get those hit die, but they'll be doing so at a disproportionately high rate for their equivalent level in a normal game.  In other words, to get those hit die, they'll likely have to make twice as much in sacrifices as they gain in hit die.  For example, if they were trying to build a barbarian (with an XP equivalency to that of a first level) but wanted two d12s instead of one ... they'll likely have to decrease what they spend in saves, class abilities, or skills.  Any one of those can be exploited by a DM .. much less probably having to skimp in two of those areas.Our group has been modifying some of the mathematical progressions found in Buy the Numbers because when we actually built all the WotC base classes we discovered that Buy the Numbers actually makes higher level characters harder to make equivalent to a traditional game.  IE, you typically need more XP to make a 20th level character in Buy the Numbers system than in a traditional game.  That right there tells me that Buy the Numbers is not highly out of balance.  The flexibility issue is balanced by the slightly heightened cost.I'd recommend spending the $5 and buying the pdf.  You may find that your group (like mine) is more than willing to chuck normal class based D&D out the window so that they can start building the characters they truly want to play.</blockquote>

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