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Message: <blockquote data-quote="modiphius" data-source="post: 7671175" data-attributes="member: 6696016">"Isn't that what I said?Attribute = 9Skill = 2You get one success if you roll 11 or less.You get a bonus success if you roll 2 or less.Or...am I still missing something here?"- Sorry yes, it was the wording referring to the '2' as the skill that might have confused some people. "You have to roll a 20 on both dice to get a Crit?So, the more dice you roll, the probability of a Crit goes exponentially down?  A Crit becomes more unlikely, but your opportunity to throw successes goes up?"- No it's any combination of one or more Repercussions (20's) on a test that does not succeed. So there's a greater chance of rolling a Repercussion the more d20's you buy, but you're also pushing fate a lot to do it. "And...do failure cross out successes, as I suggested above?"- no a failure is just a failure. So a success and a Repercussion (20) is like success at a cost - yes you shot the arrow on target but you had to step out of cover to do it. Successes don't get negated. "If I roll 3 successes and two normal failures (not Crit), isn't that equal to 1 success?"- no you rolled 3 successes, you don't negate successes. Repercussions (what you're calling Crit's) don't negate successes either, they just cause unwelcome events. They become a Critical Fail if you rolled Repercussions AND no successes. "So....the GM can punish the players if they get on a bad rolling streak?That's not "gaming it"?"- if he's a bad GM yes, just as you can punish players for absolutely no reason at all in any other RPG system. I can put a thousands orcs on the other side of that door if I want to. If you're playing with that kind of GM I suggest you get a new GM. "And, if the GM does use the Bad Points, why does it make sense to have circumstances get worse for the players because they've been making some bad rolls?"- In D&D i could have a bad streak and fumble with every roll of a d20. In 2d20 I could have a bad streak and roll 20's on every roll. It's very very unlikely but in both cases the players suffer for their bad rolling (remember the GM doesn't have to take the 2 Threat, he can just cause an inconvenience instead and if he takes the Threat points he doesn't have to spend them, so the players won't be punished for bad rolling. The case you're pointing out is no different in 2d20 than any other game with a fumble roll. However you're also looking at it from the glass is half empty perspective. Character's rolling badly should be a queue for the GM to make life interesting for the players. They tripped up running from the guards so get captured and get to meet the thief in the dungeons. When bad things happen in the rolls these should be dramatic queues not failures. If you're seeing the players as being punished for events turning against them it's the wrong way to see this. Events are turning against them, and it's the challenge to rise above the difficulties through their imagination and clever thinking. If players are rolling badly I go easy on them, what good GM doesn't, but I follow the queues to make them realise that failure has a cost - but it usually brings them in to the action and story - and that's how legends are born!"Aren't you looking at 2 or more d20 dice, first looking to see if Skill + Attribute was thrown, then checking to see if Skill or less was thrown...on each die? That's a focus on dice, not on roleplaying.- Well Fate Core has you rolling 4 Fate dice and adding and subtracting +'s and -'s and yet it's one of the simplest systems out there. D&D 5th edition has you rolling an extra dice in negative or positively advantageous situations and using the best or worst dice. In 2d20 you only check to see if you rolled under your focus if you rolled a success. It becomes second nature because the numbers don't change in a rush. You'll also only have Focus in some trained skills, not in all of them. So sometimes you won't even have Focus to check. "Then, you may be collecting tokens for use in the game (Bad Points).  That's a focus on mechanics, not roleplaying."- Players don't collect tokens, the GM does. He manages the Threat Pool. I have a pile of dice on the table. players grab one or more and throw them in the bowl if they buy d20's for their skill tests. I grab them and throw them in the pool if I take threat when they roll repercussions. Then I spend them out of the bowl. As each rattles in too the bowl you can see people thinking 'oh no....' Player's who've tried it really enjoy the atmosphere it helps to create - which is really just adding to what the GM and players are creating together. I don't think there's any more focus on mechanics here than in most other systems, and the use of Momentum gives powers to the players to forget about spending action points on set tables of actions, to describing what they actually want to do.</blockquote>

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