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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3566968" data-attributes="member: 4937">By definition.Round things are round by definition.Back to 'by definition'.  I would say however, that where you seem to be confused with what I'm saying, is that if we don't assume dieties are incarnations of abstract concepts, then the proof by definition goes away.  Of course, way back at the beginning I assumed this as a viable alternative assumption when I made the suggestion, 'What if you are ideas?'.  I don't have to prove its the only possibility, just that its a viable one.  You don't have to accept that assumption, but it is the sort of assumption most polytheistic religions eventually adopt as thier philosophy matures (Greek polytheism and Hindu polytheism both move in this direction) and IMO opinion it makes for a more intriguing cosmology to have things as alien as incarnated ideas.  At least, I agree with Socrates that it makes more sense than thinking gods are silly little twits.  Of course, look where it got Socrates.  In any event, what I've been trying to prove is not that there is one way to do it, but in fact the opposite of that.  (In fact, a really intriguing scenario is that mortals don't know which theory is true and bicker about it just like the Greeks did.)  Of course, beyond that I'd like to suggest that my way is more interesting and gives you more to think about, but I'm not out to prove that.If mortals are beholden to do good (that is, if there is a such thing as good) and if there is a divine plan of goodness, mortals are beholden to practice it according to the divine plan.  Again, Plato-like, the mortals are not capable of even percieving clearly what good is (they can't define it), and so any knowledge of good that they have must be a divinely granted shadow of the real knowledge of good.  So, if follows, that mortals are beholden to try to seek out and practice the divine knowledge of good as best as they can.I don't see how that follows from either philosophical stance.It doesn't work if you don't have some idea of what reality should be.</blockquote>

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