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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lizard" data-source="post: 2035884" data-attributes="member: 1054">Sorry, you miss my point. My point was, in Ye Olden Dayes, people did not settle down to play AD&D as a game of slightly-larger-than-life heroes grounded in a mostly realistic setting. AD&D was the original munchkin game, with games such as Runequest, Rolemaster, Chivalry&Sorcery and the like coming out in large part due to the unrealism and 'high entropy' of classic D&D/AD&D.  Most people figured the original Deities & Demigods was 'the book of more things to kill'. Dungeons were ludicrous creations which were populated by monsters who stayed in their rooms until someone came to kill them, and apparently ignored the carnage going on next door. (Unless they were 'wandering' monsters, who roamed the levels looking for adventurers to eat.) I never got any sense of 'grit' or 'realism' from AD&D. It was, as actually played, about power gaming and random death. Characters were their race, class, and level, and nothing more. (Names were often optional.) Most clerics couldn't identify what deity or pantheon they worshipped (until D&Dmg came out, then you picked some god who 'looked cool'.)I find 3e characters considerably more realistic and grounded, in that they may have skills for doing things other than killing monsters. There are also fewer 'gamey' elements (though it is still a very gamist system, no doubt!), such as ONLY thieves being able to climb walls or clerics of Zorg Bloodrinker who have to use a mace. The fact monsters have stats and can learn skills, gain classes, etc, also removes some 'gameyness', in that there are no longer two castes of beings. The nostalgia factor here has less to do with C&C and more to do with assigning to AD&D a focus and flavour it never had. I cannot see any evidence in the rules that the intent of the game was to play 'normal guys with experience'. (I might note that Unearthed Arcana pretty much stakes that concept to the ground with its multitude of stat generation systems...) AD&D was a major 'power up' as compared to classic Brown/White box D&D (which didn't even allow 1st level clerics spells at all!) Sure, it's gone up still further since then, with todays Wizards casting mountains of 1st level spells compared to the old one-shot wonders of 1e, but it's simply continuing the progression begun way-back-when.</blockquote>

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