[CA] Ring of Theurgy - arcane <-> divine?

[Thanee]

Okay, if you have a ring of theurgy [Complete Arcane] and you are a sorcerer, can you have a divine spellcaster (i.e. a cleric) cast a spell, which is also on the Sor/Wiz spell list (i.e. Dispel Magic), into the ring and then cast it using the ring's power?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

Okay, if you have a ring of theurgy [Complete Arcane] and you are a sorcerer, can you have a divine spellcaster (i.e. a cleric) cast a spell, which is also on the Sor/Wiz spell list (i.e. Dispel Magic), into the ring and then cast it using the ring's power?

Well... it says the ring functions dependent on the nature of the arcane caster who wears it, and then explains that the wearer can transfer a spell into it.

If the wearer is not an arcane caster, it could certainly be argued that the ring doesn't function at all, and thus the wearer cannot transfer spells into it.

-Hyp.

 

[Thanee]

Hmm... don't have CA with me, so I can't check right now... when using the spontaneous version, does the one who casts the spell into the ring have to wear it, then give the ring back, so the spell can be cast out of it (like ring of spellstoring)?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

Hmm... don't have CA with me, so I can't check right now... when using the spontaneous version, does the one who casts the spell into the ring have to wear it, then give the ring back, so the spell can be cast out of it (like ring of spellstoring)?

Hmm.

I think I misread earlier - the bit about 'the wearer can transfer' is the section about getting spells out.

It says later "The wearer can then have spells not on her spell list cast into the ring".

So maybe the cleric one would be okay... I can't see anything explicitly forbidding it.

-Hyp.

 

[Thanee]

Well, I got to reread the section again, and I can definitely say, that I definitely cannot say how it works or is meant to work.

It could be, that only wizards (prepared arcane casters) can put spells into the ring, while wearing it, or that anyone can just cast a spell onto the ring for the purpose of storing it inside. Or something in between. *shrug*

Bye
Thanee

 

[VorpalStare]

What a funky item.

I'm not sure how it works either. For spontaneous casters, it says:

Each spell stored in the ring is usable as an additional spell known as long as the character has an unused spell slot of the appropriate level. The stored spell disappears from the ring when cast, but the wearer can then have spells not on her spell list cast into the ring to be used again.

Nice contradiction. Can a sorcerer use a stored spell once (like a ring of spell storing, and similar to how a wizard would use the item), or several times until she runs out of spell slots of the appropriate level?

Regarding having someone else cast spells into the ring, the description quoted above clearly says that the wearer can have someone else cast spells into the ring, so there is no need to remove the ring to recharge it. Since it allows spells not on the wearer's spell list, just about any spell could be cast into the ring.

Compared to a ring of spell storing, this item is pretty cheap. A Major Ring of Spell storing, at 200,000 gp can only store 10 spell levels, but this item could store 3 9th level spells (27 spell levels) and is only 20,000 gp. Even though it doesn't grant any extra spells per day, to be balanced, there must be some major restrictions on it's use. Imagine what a high-level sorcerer could do with 3 9th level spells of her choice in this ring.

 

[Thanee]

Well, I'm pretty certain, that "spell list" there means the "spells known" of the spontaneous caster.

I'm also very sure, that you can only cast such a spell once, and it then disappears from the ring. It's not a contradiction, the first part just means, that you have to expend a spell slot, so you cannot cast the spell, if you do not have an appropriate slot ready (all used up already). The second part then goes on to say, that the spell disappears from the ring afterwards.

For now, I think it works like this:

The spontaneous arcane spellcaster has to wear the ring to use it.
Whoever casts spells into the ring, does not have to wear it. (debatable)
Any spellcaster of any tradition can cast spells into the ring. (debatable)
Only spontaneous arcane spellcasters can cast spells out of the ring.
If the spell is on the class spell list, the wearer can cast it, using his or her own slots.
It doesn't matter, whether the original spell was arcane or divine. (debatable)
After a single such casting, the spell disappears from the ring.

Prepared casters, on the other hand, have to store the spells themselves, others cannot provide them. (debatable)

The big question here is... do they have to cast (expend) the spells to store in the ring, or do they simply decide, which spells are in there during their daily preparation?

Nifty item, but it could really need a better description.

Bye
Thanee

 

[VorpalStare]

Well, I'm pretty certain, that "spell list" there means the "spells known" of the spontaneous caster.

I agree and think that makes the most sense, given the context. It's just that "spell list" generally means "spells knowable" elsewhere in the rules.

I'm also very sure, that you can only cast such a spell once, and it then disappears from the ring. It's not a contradiction, the first part just means, that you have to expend a spell slot, so you cannot cast the spell, if you do not have an appropriate slot ready (all used up already). The second part then goes on to say, that the spell disappears from the ring afterwards.

This is how I would like to rule it too, if only for game balance reasons, but the description says "Each spell ... is usable as an additional spell known as long as....." Clearly allowing more than one casting per stored spell.

For now, I think it works like this:

1)The spontaneous arcane spellcaster has to wear the ring to use it.
2)Whoever casts spells into the ring, does not have to wear it. (debatable)
3)Any spellcaster of any tradition can cast spells into the ring. (debatable)
4)Only spontaneous arcane spellcasters can cast spells out of the ring.
5)If the spell is on the class spell list, the wearer can cast it, using his or her own slots.
6)It doesn't matter, whether the original spell was arcane or divine. (debatable)
7)After a single such casting, the spell disappears from the ring.

8)Prepared casters, on the other hand, have to store the spells themselves, others cannot provide them. (debatable)

I added numbers to your quote. I think the ring doesn't store spell energy, but instead stores knowledge of the spell, which is then available to the user.

My (also tentative) interpretation is:
1) Both types of arcane casters have to wear it.
2) Explicitly stated for spontaneous casters, not specified for prepared casters.
3,5) It's entirely possible that ANY spell can be cast into the ring, but that spells not on the wearer's class spell list are not thereafter usable. If this is the case, a cleric could cast Cure Light wounds into the ring, and a Bard wearer could then use this spell, while a sorcerer could not. A Wizard could recall the spell from the ring, but could not prepare it.
4) Check. Wizards can only use the ring to quickly prepare spells.
6) Only the class spell list(s) the spell appears on is important.
7) Except for the caveat above. Resove the ambiguity this way for play balance.
8)It's probably simpler to assume that the method of storing spells is not dependent on who the wearer is, so that a bard can store spells in the ring for a wizard's use as well as the other way around.

The big question here is... do they have to cast (expend) the spells to store in the ring, or do they simply decide, which spells are in there during their daily preparation?

I think it's both. Wizards have the option to decide which spells are in the ring during daily preparation. All spell casters can cast spells into the ring, and this is the only option sorcerers and other spontaneous casters have, since that's the prescibed method of placing spells into the ring for them.

This is a really neat idea that just needed more follow-through on the part of the writers.

 

[Thanee]

This is how I would like to rule it too, if only for game balance reasons, but the description says "Each spell ... is usable as an additional spell known as long as....." Clearly allowing more than one casting per stored spell.

You forgot to list a quite important part there...

"Each spell stored in the ring ... is usable as an additional spell known as long as....."

Since the spell disappears after the first casting, as the next sentence clearly and unambiguously states, it's not available anymore, regardless of the "...as long as...".

That's really very clear.

Bye
Thanee

 

[VorpalStare]

Ahh...you're right. The first sentence in isolation means what I said, but both sentences used concurrently with your interpretation resolves the ambiguity. Therefore each spell is castable only once from the ring.