Calling all Wrestling Fans

scott-fs

First Post
Calling all Wrestling fans for a preview of an exciting new d20 game. Go to:
http://www.fantages-studios.com/wrestle

Available on the site is a preview document (something Morrus didn't mention on the announcement) which weighs in at 21 pages, and includes the following: Skills (new skills and new uses for old skills) 3 pages, Feats (or more specifically wrestling moves) 6 pages, new combat rules 3 pages, and 6 pre-gen characters of varying levels.

What I'd like to hear is what you think about the potential of the game.

Comments ? Suggestions ?

Before someone asks, Sorry, I can't reveal any d20 Modern details.
 

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I think the potential is really good. The skill set looks good, and Charisma won't be a dump stat in this game! :D I'm hoping for all kinds of d20 crossover potential (goblins wrestling gnomes? A futuristic arena of giant wrestling robots?)

A whole bunch of disorganized random thoughts:

"Wrestler Lore" - when the big feud is over and either specific wrestler leaves the league, would ranks in this skill now pretty much be wasted points?

"Wrestling Specialization" covers finishers, I assume? When I ran an e-fed everybody wanted to use the Diamond Cutter/Stunner move because it could be popped on out of nowhere ("instant-kill"), and could be used on an opponent of any weight. Man, did I get tired of always seeing that. I think they should have to spend an extra feat or two if they want a finisher that effective, like a "Quick Draw" to cut down the time it takes to set up certain finishers.

Will there be adjustments for heavy giant guys and little fast guys? A little cruiserweight shouldn't be able to gorilla press a guy twice his own weight, but maybe he could pelt him with drop kicks that are hard for the big guy to dodge.

Does the 'time is variable' part mean it will be too hard to set time limits on matches? You need some kind of clock to run an Iron Man match, for example.

The flow of a match is really important and something still missing from my experience with video games. I'm hoping the initiative system will better simulate the way wrestlers take turns on offense and defense. So yeah, I think this could be pretty cool.
 

I think this could really rock!
It shows the greatness and versatility of the d20 system. I can see some really cool cross-over potential.
Kudos,
Brutorz Bill
 

Moulin Rogue said:
I think the potential is really good. The skill set looks good, and Charisma won't be a dump stat in this game! :D I'm hoping for all kinds of d20 crossover potential (goblins wrestling gnomes? A futuristic arena of giant wrestling robots?)

I have some ideas for crossover potential, including some potential licensing.

Charisma definately isn't a dump stat, especially (through Distract and Oratory), which provide some combat benefits.

The skill set itself is only a draft list, and I intend to include many more interesting skills.

It's been suggested to do a "Mortal Kombat/Street fighter" type expansion. Additionally, a fantasy variant might be interesting.

"Wrestler Lore" - when the big feud is over and either specific wrestler leaves the league, would ranks in this skill now pretty much be wasted points?

I'm thinking that for wrestlers who want to return points spent on Wrestler Lore, the points could be placed in a reserve pool and can't be touched until your next level up (if you're more than halfway to the next level, you have to wait until the following level). This exception would be included because of the potential temporary nature of Wrestler Lore.

"Wrestling Specialization" covers finishers, I assume? When I ran an e-fed everybody wanted to use the Diamond Cutter/Stunner move because it could be popped on out of nowhere ("instant-kill"), and could be used on an opponent of any weight. Man, did I get tired of always seeing that. I think they should have to spend an extra feat or two if they want a finisher that effective, like a "Quick Draw" to cut down the time it takes to set up certain finishers.

"Wrestling Specialization" is actually this games version of "Weapon Specialization". It gives you a +2 damage bonus to a specific move (like a powerbomb, or a choke slam) and requires Weapon Focus in the general style (a powerbomb requires Weapon Focus (melee attack).

A followup feat "Finishing Move" could provide a wrestler for a devastating finish. In such a way, an "Instant" Kill move requires 3 different feats. If a player wants an "instant" kill, he has to give up other areas.

As to quick draw, there is an advanced move, "Rapid Attack" which allows you to combine two actions into one. What you give up is reduced effectiveness.

Will there be adjustments for heavy giant guys and little fast guys? A little cruiserweight shouldn't be able to gorilla press a guy twice his own weight, but maybe he could pelt him with drop kicks that are hard for the big guy to dodge.

I've been thinking about that, and right now I don't have an exact answer. In approximately two weeks though, I'll be releasing a second promo document, which I will definately seek to cover this topic.

Does the 'time is variable' part mean it will be too hard to set time limits on matches? You need some kind of clock to run an Iron Man match, for example.

'Time is variable' means that I don't want to tie things down to precise measurements. A low level character has one action, and in that action, he can't do much. A higher level character gains more actions because either (a) he is faster in setting up and performing the move, or (b) the opponent can't react as quickly from a more experienced wrestler's move.

A general time frame for those who want to keep track of time (maybe 6 seconds per round) could be established with a note that a round could take anywhere from 1 to 10 seconds. For the most part, time generally isn't important in a match.

The flow of a match is really important and something still missing from my experience with video games. I'm hoping the initiative system will better simulate the way wrestlers take turns on offense and defense. So yeah, I think this could be pretty cool.

The initiative system is appropriate for the style of the game, and definately simulates the flow of a wrestling match.
 

Sadly, I was intending to adapt some vanilla d20 sports entertainment rules I had worked on to D20 Modern when it was opened to the public. But as long as you guys get it right, I won't complain. ;)

Any chance you could post a PDF or at least a plain text copy of the promo document? It's hard for me to offer anything constructive to something I can't open.

Side note: am I the only one disturbed by the (mis)use of the word "promo" in this context? ;)
 

One thing off the top of my head (as I'm distracted by NWA Wildside on TV...)

I would recommend, if the game assumes that matches are worked, that a set of feats (or class features) be included to indicate familiarity with different kinds of rings - 18x18 Bump Ring, Lucha Libre Ring, 20x20 Bump Ring, etc.

A rookie has difficulty in any ring and would be penalized accordingly in game terms. Even a veteran WWE worker who is used to a 20x20 hard bump will have a degree of trouble working in the smaller 18 or a Lucha ring.
 
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Dahak said:
Sadly, I was intending to adapt some vanilla d20 sports entertainment rules I had worked on to D20 Modern when it was opened to the public. But as long as you guys get it right, I won't complain. ;)

This project includes a number of people who either have experience in the martial arts or that have watched wrestling for many years. I'm sure you'll be pleased with the result.


Any chance you could post a PDF or at least a plain text copy of the promo document? It's hard for me to offer anything constructive to something I can't open.

My appoligies, I had uploaded a pdf of the document, but I forgot to also upload a revised version of the wrestle main page. You can download it now.


Side note: am I the only one disturbed by the (mis)use of the word "promo" in this context? ;)

In what way do you believe it's being misused ?


I would recommend, if the game assumes that matches are worked, that a set of feats (or class features) be included to indicate familiarity with different kinds of rings - 18x18 Bump Ring, Lucha Libre Ring, 20x20 Bump Ring, etc.

I'm looking to include information on various types of rings, now that you bring this up.


A rookie has difficulty in any ring and would be penalized accordingly in game terms. Even a veteran WWE worker who is used to a 20x20 hard bump will have a degree of trouble working in the smaller 18 or a Lucha ring.

What type of penalties might you suggest ? For instance, a -4 penalty for wrestling in a similar type (but with different dimensions), -6 for wrestling in a completly different type of ring ?
 

Random thoughts and ideas for d20 wrestling:

Fatigue system or weardown system

Ring Rust (wrestlers out of action for a while take time to get acclamated to the ring again).

Crowd response and effect on the wrestlers/matches. For example, wrestlers playing to the crowd (RVD comes to mind) should get a bonus of sorts to skills, checks, or something.

Prestige/Reputation, etc.


Weight/Size advantages. A body press from a 200 lb wrestler feels a lot different than one from a 500 lb wrestler.

Prestige classes (such as Garbage wrestler for example, like Tommy Dreamer, New Jack, etc.) could work.


I'll have to dig out the game we designed in 1986 and see if I can get any more ideas...those are just from memory.


EDIT: If the game assumes the matches are worked and not real, then this might not be worth including...but rules for bloodshed (or if worked matches, blading) would be nice. So would rules for serious injuries (something like injury points or whatever).
 
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Grazzt said:
Fatigue system or weardown system
[/B]

Currently, hitpoints represent fatigue, though a wrestler is not affected by this fatigue until a wrestler drops below 0 hitpoints. For each point below 0 a wrestler drops to, he recieves a -1 penalty and cannot take 10 for any checks.

I'm considering adding "Wound" points to represent physical trauma.


Ring Rust (wrestlers out of action for a while take time to get acclamated to the ring again).

I'm not sure if this sort of mechanic would be needed.


Crowd response and effect on the wrestlers/matches. For example, wrestlers playing to the crowd (RVD comes to mind) should get a bonus of sorts to skills, checks, or something.

There is plans to develop a "crowd response" mechanic into the game, but I can't reveal much because it's still currently being discussed.


Prestige/Reputation, etc.

It'll be in there, in the form of advancement up the circuits.


Weight/Size advantages. A body press from a 200 lb wrestler feels a lot different than one from a 500 lb wrestler.

I'm considering this issue right now and how to implement it.


Prestige classes (such as Garbage wrestler for example, like Tommy Dreamer, New Jack, etc.) could work.

There will be Prestige Classes, but I don't have a list of current Prestige Classes, just some ideas.


I'll have to dig out the game we designed in 1986 and see if I can get any more ideas...those are just from memory.




EDIT: If the game assumes the matches are worked and not real, then this might not be worth including...but rules for bloodshed (or if worked matches, blading) would be nice. So would rules for serious injuries (something like injury points or whatever).

Matches are presumed to be a combination of real combat and WWE style matches. Wrestlers compete in the ring to win (matches aren't predetermined).

While matches are "real", I'd like to think that even among enemies, each wrestler has some level of respect for other competitors.

I'll consider the idea of bloodshed (maybe for hard core matches).
 

Will attacking before the bell be handled? I don't think this one happens too often anymore, but could a crafty wrestler get an unwise one to fall for the "handshake" sucker attack?

How about a feat for old Undertaker types where they never submit? Pinned yes, knocked out yes, submission moves still wear them down but they never say uncle.

Could 'playing possum' be something a wise wrestler could do? Going prone to trick the opponent into attempting a high risk move like climbing the turnbuckle, then springing up and trapping them. Or the Ric Flair move where he falls on his knees and pleads for mercy, then cheap shots the opponent.

The Irish Whip doesn't do any damage on its own but could it be used outside the ring to throw a guy back-first into a non-rebounding barricade, wall, etc? If so a distance limit (modified by the attacker's Strength?) might need to be set to figure out how far you can Irish Whip someone if the fight takes place in a wide open space.

Back on the crossover thought again, if the basic moves don't need special training does that mean that any d20 character could try them without needing pro wrestler levels? The D&D grappling rules could really use some fleshing out. Clerics of Kord wrestling in the Olympic style would be cool too.
 

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