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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 5379396" data-attributes="member: 92511">Ooooh keee. So it's not about gettin' the old players back.Well, this is "nice" and all...but why didn't they think about that  before choosing to play cold-hearted, etc etc. If they are unwilling to  DO that, then I'm back at my original "Change the party" stance.Hmmm. So is there any discord arising from being told what their goals are? Is the "I don't know what to do with my character" because they really don't know or because they assume they don't have  to because you will simply give them something to do?I MIGHT suggest, "playing hardball" to test this bit of theory. DO NOT, under any circumstances, give them stuff to do. Describe where they are, or were at the end of the last game....and wait...and wait...and wait. SOMEone in the group will have to eventually give you something they do or someplace they go.When they accomplish something....don't give them something else to do...MAKE them find their way to their next adventure themselves...If this means 3 or 4 sessions of them lingering around the closest town waiting for something to happen...so be it.They'll get the hint to start making their own destinies...or they will come to the realization that they can retire these characters.Again, if noone is willing to take the reigns, then there doesn't seem to be anywhere for this pony to go. Dump the characters and start fresh.So HE can (or most likely would) give them stuff to do. They'd be HIS goals. haha. But it wouldn't be on your shoulders to supply for the whole party. There's also the fun role-playing opportunities when someone in the party balks..."Why are we always just following what you want?"'kay. Sounds fun. But I am a bit confused how you have 2 experienced players (one with extensive backstory, etc) who are not "into their characters enough" to tell you what their goals are.Are the experienced players unwilling or unable to offer her some guidance? That said, given the lack of initiative and inspiration, I see no issue here. She will be content to simply be a follower and do whatever it is the party "leader(s)" decides they should do....She may or she may not, over time, realize that she wants something more for her character...at which point you, and most likely, the whole party will hear about it. Til then...just let her follow.I'd hardly consider someone with 2 years playing a "freshman". If he has any sort of intelligence, then he's smart enough to come up with some stuff his character wants...or does he just play to "kill things and take their stuff"?...which actually, is pretty much what duergar are all about anyway. haha.Again, let him "follow" til he doesn't want to anymore. But make sure, with this one, he doesn't just quietly remove himself from the table cuz he thinks its all about someone else.I really don't understand how anyone giving themselves a week (how long in between play sessions for you guys? I'm assuming a week) to think about this would come up blank. The logical answer is, they simply didn't give it any thought.If you have ideas from the clerics, then I say run with it. Again the role-playing opportunity will kick in at some point when someone sez, "HEY! How come we're always doing what the clerics want? I want to <insert personal character goal here>." Then let them hash it out.Truly, I feel badly for you. But I'm not sure what else to tell you. I don't think there's any way for you to MAKE a player develop/deepen their character...without writing it yourself for them...and honestly if you have to do that, why have players?Which, again, leaves the option of "Scrap 'em n' make new characters." They don't care, they're willing to "just go along with it" then they can "just go along" with rolling up someone new they will be excited about.OR, as I said, follow up on the leads you WERE given and let the followers come into their own in their own time...or not!As long as they're having fun (and you claim they are), really, who cares? If it is making it frustrating or boring for you...then that's another problem. The game needs to be fun for everybody. It is (or rather, should be) a give/take between the DM and the players with both parties getting what they need for a fun gaming experience. If you aren't getting that, then you can never go wrong with an honest mature sit down discussion of your needs and expectations as the DM....that's all I got. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Good luck.--Steel Dragons</blockquote>

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