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<blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 6629798" data-attributes="member: 45197"><p>Hiya!</p><p></p><p>Me again. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> Please don't hate me...I really am trying to help!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ok. That's better....when you said "lycan" I instantly though "Chaotic Evil Werewolves". So, now that I know where the LG and what were-creature you're going for...</p><p></p><p>Maybe make it an 'option' to begin with. A LG creature wouldn't force their "condition" on anyone. Perhaps have the werebear come to the aid of the PC's as they are fighting the vampires. After the battle, he can appologise for following them around...but he has a feeling that they may be just the people to help him and [the town/person/group] defeat the evil vampires. He can offer them help, advice, and, if they want, he can infect them with lycanthrope; they would become werebears like him...great for fighting vampires! If they refuse, he understands and says that he will help them if he can, but he must continue his search for "true heroes willing to sacrifice for the greater good" (a bit of a shaming, but not too much). He can say the offer stands, and gives them info on how to reach him.</p><p></p><p>This way, it is fully the players choice, and the players will/should realize that becoming werebears would be very useful...but it's still their choice. Certain things will be tougher, that's for sure...but then again, any vampire with half a brain will have sprigs of wolvesbane around. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Giving the players the "illusion of choice" is very hard to do... giving them "choices to progress" is easy. It sounds like you are going for the latter. Have you ever played those choose your own adventure books? Like the <em>Warlock of Firetop Mountain</em>, or the <em>Deathtrap Dungeon</em> ones? In it, they use the "choices to progress" method; "Do you choose (A), to take the spooky trail through the swamp, or (B) walk into the decrepit village of the damned, or (C) do you take the high-cliff pass?" The thing was, however, that no matter which you choose you always end up at the entrance to the "Tower of Death".</p><p></p><p>What we are talking about is trying to do the "illusion of choice" way. Using this method you have several "things" going on at the same time in the game. Whichever one the PC's choose is the one that progresses their story, but the other ones affect it....how, and how much is dependent upon what choice they made. For example, the werebear thing... if they choose to accept his offer, then the raid on the town by some ghouls sent by the vampire masters can be easily thwarted...but the townsfolk are wary of them now, now that they are "cursed creatures of the night". However, if they decline and decide to keep their humanity, they have a harder time fighting the ghouls (even when their werebear buddy shows up half way through to help)... but the townsfolk are far more grateful, and help the party with some info, maybe an old timer in town gives them a partial map of the castle because he worked on it when it was being built, and maybe the local herbalist gives them free garlic ("Even if you're working with that poor, cursed woodsman, Alphonso...I'd keep an eye on him if I were you...").</p><p></p><p>The thing is...the players made the choice, and the ghoul attack was "scripted", but the illusion that their choice mattered is sustained; the outcome of that choice (to be infected or not) had an actual consequence in how the scripted "encounter" played out.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm sorry to say, but players won't likely see it this way. The *moment* the PC's figure out that he and his group "infected" them without their choice one way or the other....it's game over for them ever developing any kind of "empathy" towards him/them. As I said...if you give them the <em>choice</em> to be affected with it, then they made the choice. Now they will happily accept his mentoring. But if it was done against their will? Forget about it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> Yeah, DMPC's almost always rub players the wrong way. Straight up NPC's, fine...but anything more than that and players will see any "good thing" that happens to said DMPC as the DM "cheating/fudging" for his character... even if it's completely untrue.</p><p></p><p> As others have said, if you want to DM, be a DM. It's hard in the beginning to "let go of your desires" and just let the story unfold naturally. I can't tell you how many times I've started to run some encounter only to have the players do something nutty and <em>completely</em> change the direction of the story. As I said earlier.... players are a crafty bunch...even when they aren't even trying to be! But I guess that's one of the cool things about DM'ing, for me at least. Expecting the PC's to use some sort of guerrilla tactics against a hill giant steading, only to have them go back to the hills where they routed the small encampment of gnolls and wargs, and "hire the remaining survivors" to help them with a full-frontal assault of the fort. *shrug* Didn't see that coming....but sure made for an interesting story! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>^_^</p><p></p><p>Paul L. Ming</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pming, post: 6629798, member: 45197"] Hiya! Me again. :) Please don't hate me...I really am trying to help! Ok. That's better....when you said "lycan" I instantly though "Chaotic Evil Werewolves". So, now that I know where the LG and what were-creature you're going for... Maybe make it an 'option' to begin with. A LG creature wouldn't force their "condition" on anyone. Perhaps have the werebear come to the aid of the PC's as they are fighting the vampires. After the battle, he can appologise for following them around...but he has a feeling that they may be just the people to help him and [the town/person/group] defeat the evil vampires. He can offer them help, advice, and, if they want, he can infect them with lycanthrope; they would become werebears like him...great for fighting vampires! If they refuse, he understands and says that he will help them if he can, but he must continue his search for "true heroes willing to sacrifice for the greater good" (a bit of a shaming, but not too much). He can say the offer stands, and gives them info on how to reach him. This way, it is fully the players choice, and the players will/should realize that becoming werebears would be very useful...but it's still their choice. Certain things will be tougher, that's for sure...but then again, any vampire with half a brain will have sprigs of wolvesbane around. ;) Giving the players the "illusion of choice" is very hard to do... giving them "choices to progress" is easy. It sounds like you are going for the latter. Have you ever played those choose your own adventure books? Like the [I]Warlock of Firetop Mountain[/I], or the [I]Deathtrap Dungeon[/I] ones? In it, they use the "choices to progress" method; "Do you choose (A), to take the spooky trail through the swamp, or (B) walk into the decrepit village of the damned, or (C) do you take the high-cliff pass?" The thing was, however, that no matter which you choose you always end up at the entrance to the "Tower of Death". What we are talking about is trying to do the "illusion of choice" way. Using this method you have several "things" going on at the same time in the game. Whichever one the PC's choose is the one that progresses their story, but the other ones affect it....how, and how much is dependent upon what choice they made. For example, the werebear thing... if they choose to accept his offer, then the raid on the town by some ghouls sent by the vampire masters can be easily thwarted...but the townsfolk are wary of them now, now that they are "cursed creatures of the night". However, if they decline and decide to keep their humanity, they have a harder time fighting the ghouls (even when their werebear buddy shows up half way through to help)... but the townsfolk are far more grateful, and help the party with some info, maybe an old timer in town gives them a partial map of the castle because he worked on it when it was being built, and maybe the local herbalist gives them free garlic ("Even if you're working with that poor, cursed woodsman, Alphonso...I'd keep an eye on him if I were you..."). The thing is...the players made the choice, and the ghoul attack was "scripted", but the illusion that their choice mattered is sustained; the outcome of that choice (to be infected or not) had an actual consequence in how the scripted "encounter" played out. I'm sorry to say, but players won't likely see it this way. The *moment* the PC's figure out that he and his group "infected" them without their choice one way or the other....it's game over for them ever developing any kind of "empathy" towards him/them. As I said...if you give them the [I]choice[/I] to be affected with it, then they made the choice. Now they will happily accept his mentoring. But if it was done against their will? Forget about it. Yeah, DMPC's almost always rub players the wrong way. Straight up NPC's, fine...but anything more than that and players will see any "good thing" that happens to said DMPC as the DM "cheating/fudging" for his character... even if it's completely untrue. As others have said, if you want to DM, be a DM. It's hard in the beginning to "let go of your desires" and just let the story unfold naturally. I can't tell you how many times I've started to run some encounter only to have the players do something nutty and [I]completely[/I] change the direction of the story. As I said earlier.... players are a crafty bunch...even when they aren't even trying to be! But I guess that's one of the cool things about DM'ing, for me at least. Expecting the PC's to use some sort of guerrilla tactics against a hill giant steading, only to have them go back to the hills where they routed the small encampment of gnolls and wargs, and "hire the remaining survivors" to help them with a full-frontal assault of the fort. *shrug* Didn't see that coming....but sure made for an interesting story! :) ^_^ Paul L. Ming [/QUOTE]
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