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Campaign idea. File the serial numbers off of history.
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<blockquote data-quote="Galloglaich" data-source="post: 4666584" data-attributes="member: 77019"><p>It's well thought out, and I like the general impulse but it's been done this way before (this is pretty similar to the Warhammer FRPG background for example), and frankly IMO not very historical. Vikings as orcs? England as the land of the Elves? Dwarves as the Italian city states? I just don't think those are a good fit frankly.</p><p></p><p>You know there were actual historical inspirations for Tolkeins Dwarves, which were Saxons living down in the Carpathians in Romania and the eastern fringes of the HRE. Just FYI. And you missed the interesting fact, (just like Warhammer did) that the power decentralization in the HRE wasn't just those Prince -electors you mentionend, it was also 'Princes of the Church' (Archbishops) as well as de-facto independent City States just like in Italy or Switzerland. (in fact Switzerland was nominally part of the HRE until the Confederacy gradually gained cities over the period of about 200 years) </p><p></p><p>The HRE was a much more interesting place than the way it's portrayed in Warhammer 2E. Lubeck, Cologne, Hamburg, Danzig and pretty much all the cities in Prussia, and most of the Hanse trading towns in the Low Countries were almost completely independent. They had their own government, their own armies etc. etc., and when someone tried to start ordering them around they weren't afraid to push back. Cologne for example actually went to war in the late 13th Century with their own Archbishop and after capturing and ransoming him at the battle of Worringen, moved from de-facto to de Jure independence, being granted the title of Imperial Free City in the 14th. In spite of the efforts of several succeeding Archbishops they remained independent until the 18th Century.</p><p></p><p>I don't know I probably shouldn't even comment seeing as this is for 4E, maybe I'm missing something since I really don't get 4E.</p><p></p><p>One suggestion I would have is this though, if you can have (10th Century) Vikings in your era rubbing shoulders with the 16th century Humans, Dwarves etc., which I think is actually viable (except for the part about their being Orcs) why not mix it up a bit more? You take other earlier Iron- Age socieites mixing in with your quasi-historical 16th century countries. After all, their technology wasn't all that different. 3rd Century Huns had almost the same kit as 14th Century Mongols; 10th Century Vikings aren't very different militarily from 1st Century Celts or 4th Century Goths in terms of their kit etc., and given different historical circumstances, I bet they could have caused serious trouble in the 16th Century as they did in the 9th. You have all sorts of other interesting cultures you could draw from too, the Dacians, the Khazar Empire, the Kievan Rus, the Sassanids, the Mamelukes etc. etc.</p><p></p><p>Since you are a history major I'd recommend delving deeper for some of your prototypes, borrow some cultures from earlier earas, mix them around a little more. You have an advanced education, use it. Don't just settle for the broad regional archetypes, push a little deeper. HRE wasn't really one generic country. Bohemia, Frisia, Saxony, and Bavaria are about as different as China. Mongolia, Korea and Japan. They spoke different dialects, practiced different customs etc. Forget France, how about drawing on Normandy, Brittany, Provence, Burgundy, Catalonia, the Basque country. Now you are getting somewhere interesting ! Scandinavia was a lot more interesting than a big pack of barbarian Orcs. In fact I'd argue they were a more likely homeland for Elves... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/4609356-post82.html" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/4609356-post82.html</a></p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/4611080-post84.html" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/4611080-post84.html</a></p><p></p><p></p><p>Anyway good luck with your endeavors, especially the making money part. If you figure out how let me know <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>G.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Galloglaich, post: 4666584, member: 77019"] It's well thought out, and I like the general impulse but it's been done this way before (this is pretty similar to the Warhammer FRPG background for example), and frankly IMO not very historical. Vikings as orcs? England as the land of the Elves? Dwarves as the Italian city states? I just don't think those are a good fit frankly. You know there were actual historical inspirations for Tolkeins Dwarves, which were Saxons living down in the Carpathians in Romania and the eastern fringes of the HRE. Just FYI. And you missed the interesting fact, (just like Warhammer did) that the power decentralization in the HRE wasn't just those Prince -electors you mentionend, it was also 'Princes of the Church' (Archbishops) as well as de-facto independent City States just like in Italy or Switzerland. (in fact Switzerland was nominally part of the HRE until the Confederacy gradually gained cities over the period of about 200 years) The HRE was a much more interesting place than the way it's portrayed in Warhammer 2E. Lubeck, Cologne, Hamburg, Danzig and pretty much all the cities in Prussia, and most of the Hanse trading towns in the Low Countries were almost completely independent. They had their own government, their own armies etc. etc., and when someone tried to start ordering them around they weren't afraid to push back. Cologne for example actually went to war in the late 13th Century with their own Archbishop and after capturing and ransoming him at the battle of Worringen, moved from de-facto to de Jure independence, being granted the title of Imperial Free City in the 14th. In spite of the efforts of several succeeding Archbishops they remained independent until the 18th Century. I don't know I probably shouldn't even comment seeing as this is for 4E, maybe I'm missing something since I really don't get 4E. One suggestion I would have is this though, if you can have (10th Century) Vikings in your era rubbing shoulders with the 16th century Humans, Dwarves etc., which I think is actually viable (except for the part about their being Orcs) why not mix it up a bit more? You take other earlier Iron- Age socieites mixing in with your quasi-historical 16th century countries. After all, their technology wasn't all that different. 3rd Century Huns had almost the same kit as 14th Century Mongols; 10th Century Vikings aren't very different militarily from 1st Century Celts or 4th Century Goths in terms of their kit etc., and given different historical circumstances, I bet they could have caused serious trouble in the 16th Century as they did in the 9th. You have all sorts of other interesting cultures you could draw from too, the Dacians, the Khazar Empire, the Kievan Rus, the Sassanids, the Mamelukes etc. etc. Since you are a history major I'd recommend delving deeper for some of your prototypes, borrow some cultures from earlier earas, mix them around a little more. You have an advanced education, use it. Don't just settle for the broad regional archetypes, push a little deeper. HRE wasn't really one generic country. Bohemia, Frisia, Saxony, and Bavaria are about as different as China. Mongolia, Korea and Japan. They spoke different dialects, practiced different customs etc. Forget France, how about drawing on Normandy, Brittany, Provence, Burgundy, Catalonia, the Basque country. Now you are getting somewhere interesting ! Scandinavia was a lot more interesting than a big pack of barbarian Orcs. In fact I'd argue they were a more likely homeland for Elves... ;) [URL]http://www.enworld.org/forum/4609356-post82.html[/URL] [URL]http://www.enworld.org/forum/4611080-post84.html[/URL] Anyway good luck with your endeavors, especially the making money part. If you figure out how let me know :) G. [/QUOTE]
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