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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 6683825" data-attributes="member: 67338">AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am about to pull my hair out...OK, please tell me why you think it's popularity matters at all to me? The exact same setting that was made by DM A with no writing experience would be a bad setting in my mind. The exact same setting that was made and sold poorly would still be a bad setting in my mind. Now the closest thing to an argument I can see anyone making for it's popularity being a factor goes like this:If it had not been popular, there would be less books. If there were less books you would not have some of the issues you have. If it were less popular there fore you would not dislike it as much... except at that point it really comes down to "If the problems you have with it were lesser or not there at all you would like it better." withc is pretty meaning less... like I said above I'm like 90% 10% and that 10% is mostly Dark sun, and Harry Dresden/D20 modern... I bought a lot of 2e campaign stuff myself (one day birthright I will run you...someday... maybe after I find someone to play spell jammer with out laughing)  some of them I level at all settings to varrias degrees.... however some of them are very spesfic to the realms... I would like to point out to not be bogged down in realms lore in a stupid pissing match (Well too late now) I tried to describe the problems as problems with other settings first... I do belive there are a few flaws backed in back at ground zero, BUT I agree 90% with this assessment... the problem is that all that crap exsists....the problem is that I can gloss over or ignore a little of a problem (What % of bug guts are allowed in food) but as that number grows it causes problems... now I want to pull out one thing here...no... 100% not. There is never a Mary Sue NPC that should appear in any setting... there is a difference between "Hey this is a power house NPC" (not great on it's own), and "Hey this good aligned adventureing power house NPC is a bit BS" (Major issue and can be a game breaker for me but maybe not) and "Hey there are a bunch of good aligned adventureing power house NPCs, and some Neutral ones too, and they come with a ton of back story and novels" (Witch no other setting in D&D has except dragon lance, and trust me is already passed my breaking point) and "This is just a auther insert power fantasy aka a mary sue" (Game over this is my too far thing...) and in and of itself, I could just remove elminster... in fact, this is why I get annoyed and laugh at this whole argument, as much as I dislike elm, and his whole history, he was not my problem in any campaign. As much as I am not a fan of Drizet (well I like some stories and think salvator a good writer but don't want him in a game) he isn't anything I'm that big an issue on. MY problem is hidden land minds... Symbol broke my game because I could not plan around someone I didn't know... the king of some place did in a game I played... black staff and, well that isn't really fear that time was bad DMing...even the midnight mystra thing buged me... and that was literally the first thing I learned at 17 about the setting... to paraphrase many years ago a friend told me "Yea, the neutral goddess of magic who held everything in balance died, and this slut adventurer took over and was banging the high wizard dude who is like dr strange meets gandolf but done right and was the ex lover of the dude who killed and took the place of the death god and she is stuck giving spells to bad guys or loosing her own power..."now more then 20 years later I know some to all of that is wrong,I even know the idiot who told me this has matured very little from when we were freshmen in college.  But the very first argument I made was "Why not just make the new god of magic neutral too?"I dislike the setting, I didn't really know it except for stories until 3e (yes even playing it in 2e I didn't really know it) and I feel it has deep rooted flaws that should be addressed. No having said that, is it all bad... NO, there are good redemming things to it, but I can't get past what I see are glareing flaws...I even have my own setting using a part of the realms map... It has an epic wizard call Nethril who is too old to adventure and has a lot of knowledge and maybe the power for one last battle in him, but maybe not. I have the Daggerdale family being lords like Robert in GoT but a hidden psionc power int here blood... and a sun "Prince Ken" who is arragont but also has a bit of a soft heart... I took a lot of realms stuff and left the bad stuff and it works fine... but it is 100% tailored to my players... I got into D&D through a starter set that had a realms lite in it, and this is all based on that stuff.</blockquote>

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