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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Garthanos" data-source="post: 8373830" data-attributes="member: 82504">Yes I knowThe starting point for martial types is bloody mundane and it progresses up to a blazing high end of almost matches olympic athletes and then stalls (just like your attributes being capped). Attributes being capped at mundane for martial types seems to basically mean everything you do is capped there.Right even in 3e it took house rules to do that and that included squashing the spell casters high end ...as it sure looks at the effects of spell casting pretty damn epic baked in I agree but then I looks at the number of fighter attacks at 20th level and they can be matched by real world people. (real world archers for instance can make 4 shots in 6 seconds)  Looks at the strength score and jumping distances with no built in scaling also matched and exceeded even by  real world athletes. In my opinion they mostly squashed epic for martials.Looks at the legacy of 1 man army abilities in early editions.  From 1 attack per enemy low level enemy you can reach in AD&D to greater cleaves in D20 to rain of steel (and others in 4e) which are all superior to the 5e EPIC heroism alternate rule. (hmmmm maybe not so noticeable as it might be as good as the d20 rule)The 4e abilities in this category have the support of "high level" minions being effectively enemies who were once analogous to even 4 levels higher than you (Like Ogres that you now outclass by advancing a tiers worth) and that never happens in 5e. It's definitely opinion indeed. We have 20 percentiles better on your skills from heroic to epic tier... with DM fiat the DCs to fix it feh.  Martial types generally only have skills to get more utility and that means less and less impact outside of combat as spells get better in absolute ways, even if they have combat numbers balanced.Some year they might support epic martial. I did start looking for options in the DMG its largely improvements for every class over all but worth noting in your quest for Mythic. Hero Points (an ok idea). The Epic Heroism rest variant not bad but also buffing casters too. Healing surges to somewhat support mid combat healing which can enable bigger battles.Odyssey of the Dragonlords also focuses more on the story elements both give about a feat worth to everyone. Story elements are quite necessary. They might even influence a DM to decide those dcs based on someone other than the guy down the block.</blockquote>

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