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<blockquote data-quote="Tormyr" data-source="post: 7317969" data-attributes="member: 6776887">Personal observations:1. The witches are not hidden. It is reasonable for the PCs to hear the witches casting invisibility and they should not be Surprised.2. Why should the medusa get to go first? That is what initiative is for. If you want to impose a disadvantage for averting eyes, I would argue that disadvantage on the initiative roll fits better that just letting the medusa go first. The paladin was not surprised, and unless the medusa was surprised, it should have had a chance to act.Invisibility is not automatic stealth. It is advantage on a Dexterity (Stealth) check when a creature takes the Hide action. If the creature does not have time to take the Hide action, they are not hidden. They can be completely obscured without being hidden.In scenario 1, the witches still can take the Hide action on their next turn and get advantage on their first attack rolls (whenever those happen). The PC should know that someone is in the room and roughly where they are but not exactly where they are. So if you call for initiative to be rolled, no one should be surprised outside of any PCs that did not know what was going on, and attack rolls on the witches would have disadvantage vs. being next to impossible once they take the Hide action.In scenario 2, the Paladin burst in to attack. So they have some sort of upper-hand even if they do not look at the medusa. It really seems like normal initiative works here.My 2cp.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tormyr, post: 7317969, member: 6776887"] Personal observations: 1. The witches are not hidden. It is reasonable for the PCs to hear the witches casting [I]invisibility[/I] and they should not be Surprised. 2. Why should the medusa get to go first? That is what initiative is for. If you want to impose a disadvantage for averting eyes, I would argue that disadvantage on the initiative roll fits better that just letting the medusa go first. The paladin was not surprised, and unless the medusa was surprised, it should have had a chance to act. Invisibility is not automatic stealth. It is advantage on a Dexterity (Stealth) check when a creature takes the Hide action. If the creature does not have time to take the Hide action, they are not hidden. They can be completely obscured without being hidden. In scenario 1, the witches still can take the Hide action on their next turn and get advantage on their first attack rolls (whenever those happen). The PC should know that someone is in the room and roughly where they are but not exactly where they are. So if you call for initiative to be rolled, no one should be surprised outside of any PCs that did not know what was going on, and attack rolls on the witches would have disadvantage vs. being next to impossible once they take the Hide action. In scenario 2, the Paladin burst in to attack. So they have some sort of upper-hand even if they do not look at the medusa. It really seems like normal initiative works here. My 2cp. [/QUOTE]

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