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<blockquote data-quote="Uller" data-source="post: 7318063" data-attributes="member: 413">I think thats what the stealth vs passive perception check answers.&nbsp; Someone mentioned above that invisibility is not automatic stealth.&nbsp; That is correct...but it sure helps.&nbsp; It seems to me that it should allow the possibility of remaining undetected.&nbsp; Did the PCs hear them cast a spell through a thick ironbound oak door while they fiddled with theives tools?&nbsp; I dunno.&nbsp; Let the roll decide...Yesterday I came home from work and hadn't noticed my son's car in the driveway.&nbsp; I thought he was at school.&nbsp; He startled me accidentally when he smelled dinner cooking and came down to get something to eat.&nbsp; He didn't actively hide.&nbsp; But I still failed to hear him coming until he was fully in the kitchen.I have always used stealth rolls like that...for a detected creature to become undected when there is a chance of remaining detected (woodelf trying to fade out of sight as he moves through the forest undergrowth.. can the orcs chasing him keep him in sight?) or for when a creature is undetected but might become detected&nbsp; (the assassin hiding around the corner with a readied crosbow bolt...does his target spot him before he shoots?)But I think where I went wrong or what didn't sit right with me was the requirement I imposed that for a creature to be hidden (underected and location unknown) they must take the hide action.&nbsp; Surely the elf or the assassin above must both &quot;hide&quot;.&nbsp; But if the orcs never knew the elf was there&nbsp; or completely lost site and sound?&nbsp; Then they have to detect him.&nbsp; Sometimes they will..sometimes they won't and the check determines it.&nbsp; If they don't detect him passively but suspect he is there they can move to gave clear linebof sight on where they think he is or they can take the search action to actuvely try to spot him.Sent from my [device_name] using <a href="http://EN World mobile app" target="_blank">EN World mobile app</a></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Uller, post: 7318063, member: 413"] I think thats what the stealth vs passive perception check answers. Someone mentioned above that invisibility is not automatic stealth. That is correct...but it sure helps. It seems to me that it should allow the possibility of remaining undetected. Did the PCs hear them cast a spell through a thick ironbound oak door while they fiddled with theives tools? I dunno. Let the roll decide... Yesterday I came home from work and hadn't noticed my son's car in the driveway. I thought he was at school. He startled me accidentally when he smelled dinner cooking and came down to get something to eat. He didn't actively hide. But I still failed to hear him coming until he was fully in the kitchen. I have always used stealth rolls like that...for a detected creature to become undected when there is a chance of remaining detected (woodelf trying to fade out of sight as he moves through the forest undergrowth.. can the orcs chasing him keep him in sight?) or for when a creature is undetected but might become detected (the assassin hiding around the corner with a readied crosbow bolt...does his target spot him before he shoots?) But I think where I went wrong or what didn't sit right with me was the requirement I imposed that for a creature to be hidden (underected and location unknown) they must take the hide action. Surely the elf or the assassin above must both "hide". But if the orcs never knew the elf was there or completely lost site and sound? Then they have to detect him. Sometimes they will..sometimes they won't and the check determines it. If they don't detect him passively but suspect he is there they can move to gave clear linebof sight on where they think he is or they can take the search action to actuvely try to spot him. Sent from my [device_name] using [url]EN World mobile app[/url] [/QUOTE]

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