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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 7318788" data-attributes="member: 6801845">When I run into things like this I kind of step outside the rules and try to make a ruling based on logic.&nbsp; This is sometimes a dangerous thing with any game which has to vastly simplify reality.&nbsp; But here goes.The hide action to me isn't really a typical action, it's more of an opportunity cost.&nbsp; Because you are trying to use your environment to become unseen and unheard, you don't have time to do anything else.So when things don't fall neatly into the standard pattern, I ask a question.&nbsp; What was the creature doing before they were possibly detected.&nbsp; After all you are for all practical purposes hidden from me, I cannot see you, I do not know where you are yet you are not making an effort to hide.In this case I would say the witches are hidden until their turn.&nbsp; The PCs may know there's something in the room but there's no reason to know exactly where they are.&nbsp; I might still roll stealth vs passive perception to emulate the witches trying to remain still, but it's situational.&nbsp; Is it full daylight outside and is the sun now shining in on a dusty room where there might be an outline of a figure?&nbsp; Did I envision a creaky floor, or perhaps a straw-covered floor that might give away position because of the footprints in the straw.If the medusa is making a significant amount of noise, if it is not casting a shadow, I see no reason the PC would have known where they were.&nbsp; On the other hand if A is chasing B and B goes around a corner, is B running full out by dashing?&nbsp; If so, A rounds the corner and probably sees B running down the street.&nbsp; Even if he doesn't see B running down the street, he may see the commotion of B pushing people aside or accidentally knocking things over, even people staring at the guy who just ran by.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 7318788, member: 6801845"] When I run into things like this I kind of step outside the rules and try to make a ruling based on logic. This is sometimes a dangerous thing with [I]any[/I] game which has to vastly simplify reality. But here goes. The hide action to me isn't really a typical action, it's more of an opportunity cost. Because you are trying to use your environment to become unseen and unheard, you don't have time to do anything else. So when things don't fall neatly into the standard pattern, I ask a question. What was the creature doing before they were possibly detected. After all you are for all practical purposes hidden from me, I cannot see you, I do not know where you are yet you are not making an effort to hide. In this case I would say the witches are hidden until their turn. The PCs may know there's [I]something[/I] in the room but there's no reason to know [I]exactly[/I] where they are. I might still roll stealth vs passive perception to emulate the witches trying to remain still, but it's situational. Is it full daylight outside and is the sun now shining in on a dusty room where there might be an outline of a figure? Did I envision a creaky floor, or perhaps a straw-covered floor that might give away position because of the footprints in the straw. If the medusa is making a significant amount of noise, if it is not casting a shadow, I see no reason the PC would have known where they were. On the other hand if A is chasing B and B goes around a corner, is B running full out by dashing? If so, A rounds the corner and probably sees B running down the street. Even if he doesn't see B running down the street, he may see the commotion of B pushing people aside or accidentally knocking things over, even people staring at the guy who just ran by. [/QUOTE]

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