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<blockquote data-quote="HoboGod" data-source="post: 5248551" data-attributes="member: 90920">@BrokeAndDrive: Yeah, another thing to whine about, of course. With animate dead, one can make a CR 8 Tyrannosaurus Skeleton no problem at 11th level. By the time create undead can make anything that strong is at 18th level, when a necromancer would have access to create greater undead. I understand that you can't bring a T-Rex Skeleton into most dungeons and it's pretty much the opposite of subtle, but that's merely the extreme example. There are 10 HD creatures which make CR 6 zombies that do just fine for more compact destruction, certainly better than anything below 18th level Create Undead.However, enough of them together makes some mighty fine cannon fodder while beatsticks and boomsticks make serious dents in the enemy. On the other hand, that's what animate dead is for. *twitch*On top of my arguments for not requiring inteligent undead, Create Undead seems like the 6-level version of Prestigitation. We have stories of wizards waving their hands and dishes cleaning themselves and book pages turning on their own, so comes a mechanically worthless spell to do ALL that stuff: Prestigitation. We have stories of ghouls, mummies, and things which go bump in the night being spawned from evil magic, so comes a mechanically worthless spell do that, too, in the form of Create Undead.When story time comes and the DM says a powerful wizard created a ghoul long, long ago which still plagues the night, if a player says &quot;How'd he do that? Are you making up rules?&quot; the DM can just say &quot;Nope, here's the spell he casted.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="HoboGod, post: 5248551, member: 90920"] @BrokeAndDrive: Yeah, another thing to whine about, of course. With animate dead, one can make a CR 8 Tyrannosaurus Skeleton no problem at 11th level. By the time create undead can make anything that strong is at 18th level, when a necromancer would have access to create greater undead. I understand that you can't bring a T-Rex Skeleton into most dungeons and it's pretty much the opposite of subtle, but that's merely the extreme example. There are 10 HD creatures which make CR 6 zombies that do just fine for more compact destruction, certainly better than anything below 18th level Create Undead. However, enough of them together makes some mighty fine cannon fodder while beatsticks and boomsticks make serious dents in the enemy. On the other hand, that's what animate dead is for. *twitch* On top of my arguments for not requiring inteligent undead, Create Undead seems like the 6-level version of Prestigitation. We have stories of wizards waving their hands and dishes cleaning themselves and book pages turning on their own, so comes a mechanically worthless spell to do ALL that stuff: Prestigitation. We have stories of ghouls, mummies, and things which go bump in the night being spawned from evil magic, so comes a mechanically worthless spell do that, too, in the form of Create Undead. When story time comes and the DM says a powerful wizard created a ghoul long, long ago which still plagues the night, if a player says "How'd he do that? Are you making up rules?" the DM can just say "Nope, here's the spell he casted." [/QUOTE]

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