Can A Dm Improve His Players?

[DMFTodd]

Can a DM improve the players he has? If you've got average players, can a DM turn them into "good" players (however you define that)?

I'll give two specifics, let me know how the DM can make these players better:

Player #1: Good knowledge of rules. Puts together an interesting character, has some good background. But, in game, player will not open his mouth. Total introvert who contributes very little during the game. Pays attention, has great ideas when he does speak, just refuses to speak.

Player #2: His character has a name and some stats. Lots of stats. Tends to be a powergamer. Literally, his character has no background. If he played a cleric, you would never know the name of his god.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Yes. It's where the Player Appreciation Bat comes into play. Not to mention the oversized dice that make good projectiles...

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Can a DM improve the players he has? If you've got average players, can a DM turn them into "good" players (however you define that)?

As I said in the other thread- it may be an issue of the wrong dm for the wrong players.

Conversation is an amazing way to sort that out.

Player #1: . Pays attention, has great ideas when he does speak, just refuses to speak.

Ask if he is having fun- if he is, then leave him alone.

I'll give two specifics, let me know how the DM can make these players better:

Player #2: Literally, his character has no background.

I give xp for character backgrounds and adventure summaries. This helps people who would rarely consider these things to start considering them.

FD

 

[brak1]

Withholding the Mountain Dew sometimes works as well.

Actually, I think that this is where a little player-specific subplotting might work well. Involve player number one in something that leads his/her character to a choice about communicating with his fellows or something terrible will happen. Maybe he/she is having prophetic dreams. For player #2 a subplot that involves never once making a roll (unless it's a skill check or something similiar) and plays on what little background they've come up. Make their character seem more interesting to them and they may start picking up the slack.

It's a lot of extra work for the DM, but often worth it. I was pleased this past gaming session to put my group in a situation where they had to just sit and talk to each other for a while. I went off to the bathroom and when I came back they were still talking - in character! A great leap from the "why don't I have a +1 sword yet?" days of yore!

 

[Dr Midnight]

Gospog has two players he considers "Graduates of the Bisbee School of Roleplaying". He's DM'd for them since they were young, and now they're pretty good at what they do.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Can a DM improve the players he has? If you've got average players, can a DM turn them into "good" players (however you define that)?

I'll give two specifics, let me know how the DM can make these players better:

Player #1: Good knowledge of rules. Puts together an interesting character, has some good background. But, in game, player will not open his mouth. Total introvert who contributes very little during the game. Pays attention, has great ideas when he does speak, just refuses to speak.

Player #2: His character has a name and some stats. Lots of stats. Tends to be a powergamer. Literally, his character has no background. If he played a cleric, you would never know the name of his god.

Case #1: Is he playing the silent type or just quiet? There is a difference.

Case #2: Have small things creep up on him. Parents, brothers, sisters, family rivals.

I agree with others that it is a lot of work to get a player to be a better role player but the question is, is it worth it?

In my group, there are six players. I'd say two of them are good the others so-so. I provide little subplots and side quests for the others but to be honest, I focus on the two who are helping make my job easier. Role playing is a group event.

 

[Dinkeldog]

I think a good DM can bring out the best in players. At the same time, it helps to make you a better DM. Try to engage the players. Make the world seem more real to them by having PCs speaking as the PCs would speak. Move around the table. Whisper to one player or another. If you've only got the two players this can work decently. If you've got more, then while you pay close attention to one or two, encourage the others to discuss other things together.

 

[Enkhidu]

Let me say two things first...

1. I don't believe a DM can improve a player; however a DM can help a player to improve. It's a narrow difference, but it's an important one - if the player resists improving it will be a lost cause.

2. Are these players having fun, and are you having fun with them as a DM? If so, these players do not need "improvement" to an artificial standard. More than anything, D&D is a game that is supposed to be fun. If you're already having fun, everyone wins.

That being said, there are ways that you can help a player improve. Let's look at these players separately...

Player #1, from your description, seems to be a good player, if a little withdrawn. If your player (and the other players in the group) seem fine with it, I'd leave this one well enough alone. If, however, this player brings down the game dynamic with a refusal to speak, I suggest shining the spotlight directly on that player from time to time. NPC's could develop interest in that particular player's PC (romantic, personal, otherwise). Responsibility could be thrust upon that PC. The key is to get that player to dig in and roleplay their way through some situations, preferably situations that the other players cannot or will not take the lead in.

Player #2, on the other hand, may require a little more. The best way to get a powergamer (or anyone who is more concerned with the numbers of the game) to create a good background is to offer something number-related in return. Have the player make a wish list when creating a character, and then make that player justify via background why the character has this item, or this feature (like more starting money to start with, for example). Make sure that you state up front that you have final say on how much history is good enough to qualify for a bonus item/feature, so you can veto anything you might need to.

Here's a new campaign idea that would fit the bill for either player, as long as the rest of the group is game to try it:

The hub character (and I use that term to mean the central character in the party, not the most important) is the recent descendent of a great hero or other well known figure of recent history. Have the player you want to grow as a roleplayer create the backstory of the hero, as well as the method on how his current character became an adventurer. Make him fill in the blanks on what happened to his family line in the interim. The other PC's then play support roles (to begin with), either behaving as protectors with more experience in the world, or as novices looking to someone descended from a great hero to lead them.

In this situation, you've gotten a PC to create a 3 dimensional backstory (one that even a dyed in the wool number cruncher will want to hold onto), and you've made the hub player have to roleplay in a central position, basically putting them on the spot for some time to come.

I'll warn you, don't spring this one on unsuspecting players - make sure that the group would have fun with it first. But I've found this to be one of the more rewarding roleplaying setups in the entire time I've played D&D.

 

[BluWolf]

I will give you an unequivical maybe.

I think it really comes down to what the individual player wants out of the game.

If they are just playing the game as a form of escapist entertainment and don't show much interest in more than hack-n-slash then I would say probably not. There is nothing wrong with this sort of player. They just want to play Conan or Drizzt or some such clone and walk aorund and beat on things and maybe collect some treasure. Thats fine, but you will probablt be a little hard pressed to get them to appreciate some more subtle qualities of the game.

Some one that is new or has just never had anyone show them different aspects of the game but is interested is another story all together.

I had a player in my last group that has been playing for some 15 years off and on but almost everytime he wanted to take an action you had to walk him through the mechanics. Not all the time, but most of the time. He was a great player from the aspect of interest and always showing up but just never showed any real interest in learning the mechanics.

Eventually he had an idea for a different sort of character he wanted to play. He gave me the concept and the background and I told him if he could find some material (Prc, feats, skills..) that would do the trick I would consider it. He basically wanted to play a gladiator but i wasn't goin gto tell him that.

So he ran off and bought a PHB (after borrowing ours for god knows ho long) and started reading up. Started sending me questions by email and eventually started quoting rules at the table occasionally. He started actually having MORE fun at the games.

"I never knew how cool this game was!"

My jaw hit the floor at that one.

To some up. DM know thy players.

If you have a quiet guy with great ideas. Focus some attention on him and make everyone else at the table shut up. Spot light him a few times with a good chance of success. Reward him for those efforts.

If some one doesn't know a rule, make them look it up. Tell everyone else to shut up. Make him explain it too you.

If you have a player who is there to make things bleed and no more. It might be time for you to adjust your expectations.

 

[Magius del Cotto]

Player #1: Good knowledge of rules. Puts together an interesting character, has some good background. But, in game, player will not open his mouth. Total introvert who contributes very little during the game. Pays attention, has great ideas when he does speak, just refuses to speak.

Sounds a lot like me in my last group. One thing you might want to do have have him DM the group through a session or two with his own campaign. This should help him identify with the other players in the group and open him up a bit more when he's back among them. Of course, it could backfire, but what's life without a little risk, eh?