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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 374318" data-attributes="member: 177">Players can be improved, with time, yes.  The "if it ain't broke don't fix it" position has merit.  If everyone is having fun, there's no strong reason to change.  However, the fact that you ask the question suggests that not everyone is satisfied.Also, the fact that everyone is having fun now does not preclude the possibility that everyone could have more fun.  And, if you suspect tyhat these players have never tried to play any other way, there's somethign to be said for exposing them so that they can make an educated choice.Now, as for ways to improve players.  The first note is that it takes time.  Frequently lots of it.  Look for evolutions of playstyle, not revolutions.Some players respond to the "carrot and stick" methods of rewards or punishments.  But many don't, so those methods can be risky.  Perhaps the simplest way to change players is to put them in situatiosn where they don't really have any other choice but to play a little differently.For Player 1, the method is simple - put him in situatiosn where he must open his mouth.  Some people do tend to be quiet in groups.  So, put him in the occasional situation where it's only him and an NPC.  Or him and one other player.  Make him interact on a smaller scale first, so that he gets used to it, and then lead him on into broader venues.For Player 2: The best solution I know, unfortunately, is only really useful if you apply it at the start of the campaign - require a background story, and then continue to refer to it.  Make sure that elements of the gbackground story become real issues in the game, so this player cannot avoid or forget the past.  Make what you see as grave deviations from the stated background have repercussions.  If the character claims to have a family, and the family has financial troubles that he ignores, eventually the tax-man comes, etc.Later on, it is hard to enforce such things.  You'd be best off putting the chatracter in situatiosn where his game stats aren't as useful, where role-play is the solution.  For example, he needs to get information (from another member of the church, so another PC cannot do the job).  Make is so that this other church official isn't swayed by simple words alone.  He's only impressed by people who've got backgrounds that call for respect - people of family, or people who can recite curch doctrine, or who have demonstrated devotion to the deity above and beyond holding to the normal alignment restrictions.  Or, maybe the only way to get the information is to join a rough guy in a drinking contest, during which he engages in braggign banter about the past - and if the PC cannot impress him with stories of the past, he give out no information.  In general, put Player 2 in positions where personality is more relevant to the outcome than statistics.All this kind of amounts to leading by example.  If you want more active and open role-play, make that a larger part of the game.</blockquote>

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