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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zephyrus" data-source="post: 2612171" data-attributes="member: 8728">Yes, they would hear the orc chanting but thats 'one orc'. The others would remain invisible and the Catapult would be fired as a ready action based on the chanting. The DM could make it out to be some kind of war cry or similar and not have it be so obvious that its a Bardic Music Ability. The Smashing alchemist fire etc would serve to direct the party's attention tword the seige machinery.Readied actions to activate the anti-airborne threat would release Traps against aerial targets. Readied actions with the wand will challenge casters ability to cast flight or mobility spells. Yes the Party knows theirs an Orc(s) out their. But they have alot of noise going on from exposions of siege weaponry, the chant and maybe throw in some thunderstones they will be too busy to make listen or spot checks against the invisible Orcs. Not unless they actually spend an action to do so. Otherwise I'd rule they are metagaming (I mean unless they've encounter this trick before... Look-Out Seige weaponry is being fired at us and a couple of orcs up ahead are throwing smoke sticks, be on the listen for invisible Orcs!). The surprize is not that you suddenly have a dozen orcs attacking. the surprize is of Invisible Orcs with true-striking spiked chains are suddenly attacking them via an AoO and then is dropping smoke and fleeing which then comes to create surprize number two when the party runs over/through/into their traps.If the original Invisibilities were cast from scrolls then the Orc's could consume the potions after they've run out of LOS of the party and prepare to get another AoO on them. Have the orc's attempt to sunder ranged weapons like bows or crossbows. With Wands of Magic Missile and readied actions you can zap spellcasters attempting to cast spells to limit thier ability to use magic.Also. I'm talking about them actually doing a RUN movement. Medium armor WILL slow them down unless they power up their speed. Yes their's mithril and Haste effects but what I'm getting at is the orcs dont have to make it easy. If the setting is wooded, flight wont do the party any good as the tree canopy will block LOS. I wouldent put it across the Orc's to set the entire woods on fire. This all contributes to keeping the party on the ground and the Orc's spread out insuring everyone will get a chance to kill an orc and that it wont be over in a blink of an eye.Edit: As for the ability to see Invisible.. yes that does present a problem. But their was no real mention of the party doing that and if its via spells they have to proactively cast it. If its via an item or similar then yeah. that does cause a problem. As for it being beyond the Orc's means to plan this... I did suggest that their might be a master mind behind it. Besides.. 17th level characters will have alot of enemies (they generally have only killed the ones they know about... their is often plenty more that they dont).</blockquote>

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