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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Baragos" data-source="post: 2614710" data-attributes="member: 33166">There aren't bells and whistles big enough to turn a dozen standard orcs into anything that won't be over in 2 rounds, tops, against 17th level characters...No risk fights are not funny to play, it wastes time. Now, if the players want to try how it would be to kill a bunch of orcs with their 17th level characters, then go ahead...it serves a purpose of sorts...but you'd be better off giving each orc a few npc levels (warrior 4 or 5)...it is not unreasonable to think that a culture that embraces fighting as the orcs do it, would have a fair amount of 4th-5th level warriors, lead by a slightly higher level shaman and perhaps a ranger (guide). I know it wasn't what you asked for, but it would be more interesting that way...16 4th-level orc warriors, lead by a 10th-level orc adept and a 9th level orc ranger would be an EL 13 (in the very low end, as a single spell would still take out most of the orcs. Giving them a little tactical benefit would help...archers, or perhaps javelin throwers, from a high ridge could harass the party wizard or sorcerer for a round or two...orcs armed with longspears would also have a clear benefit...and the adept can use some spells that help the orcs (morale and other bonuses to attacks and saves), while the ranger could do some damage from hiding with a bow against his favored enemy...Surprise is a must...and even then I douobt the orcs would do much damage...but remember that aid another is an option...if 2 orcs with longspears assisted a third orc with a longspear, they'd grant him +4 to hit...and if you mix the lenght of spears up to 7 could assist one orc (2 with spears, 3 with longspears) for a +14 bonus to attack roll.</blockquote>

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