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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Can a fireball melt ice?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6882611" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>This is not correct. There is no explicit statement that fireball does not burn things that are not worn. There is an explicit statement that it ignites flammable things that are neither worn nor carried.</p><p></p><p>What further implications are generated by that explicit statement, and how it interacts with the general principles stated on SRD p 87, is something on which opinions differ.</p><p></p><p>I'm not really sure what you are intending with all this.</p><p></p><p>I've GMed a lot of fireballs (and similar spells), in AD&D, Rolemaster, 4e and Burning Wheel. I haven't experienced too much difficulty in deciding the effect on objects, or coming up with some sort of spread of reasonable results that can then be rolled for.</p><p></p><p>If the players try another fireball after the pendant (and wearer) luckily survive, what's the problem? If they reduce the enemy to 0 hp then his/her luck has run out, and the pendant is forced to rely on its own icy capabilities (in AD&D this would be an item saving throw; in the other games I've mentioned it's more a matter of GM's free narration, within the constraints of whatever the details are of the players' action declarations).</p><p></p><p>As far as avoiding arbitrariness, I think the relationship between fiction and action declaration, plus the general sense of mechanical balance and consequence established by the rules, is a better guide than designer's intent. Is Thunderwave really a "wave of thunderous force" that blasts enemies across the room but leaves the house of cards on the table undisturbed? Does Ice Storm really cause a "hail of rock-hard ice [to] pound to the ground" that leaves the picnic food and glassware untouched?</p><p></p><p>I don't see what is arbitrary about taking these descriptions - which establish the content of the shared fiction - seriously. Taking them seriously doesn't resolve the issue of exactly what happens - in 5e, that is left largely as a matter of GM discretion- but to me it makes it clear that <em>something </em>might happen.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6882611, member: 42582"] This is not correct. There is no explicit statement that fireball does not burn things that are not worn. There is an explicit statement that it ignites flammable things that are neither worn nor carried. What further implications are generated by that explicit statement, and how it interacts with the general principles stated on SRD p 87, is something on which opinions differ. I'm not really sure what you are intending with all this. I've GMed a lot of fireballs (and similar spells), in AD&D, Rolemaster, 4e and Burning Wheel. I haven't experienced too much difficulty in deciding the effect on objects, or coming up with some sort of spread of reasonable results that can then be rolled for. If the players try another fireball after the pendant (and wearer) luckily survive, what's the problem? If they reduce the enemy to 0 hp then his/her luck has run out, and the pendant is forced to rely on its own icy capabilities (in AD&D this would be an item saving throw; in the other games I've mentioned it's more a matter of GM's free narration, within the constraints of whatever the details are of the players' action declarations). As far as avoiding arbitrariness, I think the relationship between fiction and action declaration, plus the general sense of mechanical balance and consequence established by the rules, is a better guide than designer's intent. Is Thunderwave really a "wave of thunderous force" that blasts enemies across the room but leaves the house of cards on the table undisturbed? Does Ice Storm really cause a "hail of rock-hard ice [to] pound to the ground" that leaves the picnic food and glassware untouched? I don't see what is arbitrary about taking these descriptions - which establish the content of the shared fiction - seriously. Taking them seriously doesn't resolve the issue of exactly what happens - in 5e, that is left largely as a matter of GM discretion- but to me it makes it clear that [I]something [/I]might happen. [/QUOTE]
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