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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Atavar" data-source="post: 3637759" data-attributes="member: 7136">Surprise doesn't have to be a condition like stun or daze in order for something to be affected by it.  Within the rules of the game, a horse can be surprised when he is alone.  Nothing in the rules says that he becomes immune to being surprised because he has a rider.You are assuming that surpirsed characters don't have an initiative count in the surprise round.  That isn't true.  All of my players and NPCs roll initiative right away, whether they are surprised or not.  If they are surprised, they simply cannot act on their initiative count in the surprise round.You are also assuming that just because something has an initiative count, that it gets to act on its initiative count.  Also incorrect.  You can't if you are dazed or stunned.  You also cannot act if you are surprised.Not if something prevents it from doing so, like being surprised.  Since the RAW doesn't seem to speak on point, it needs to be Rule Zeroed.  For you (and your apparent experiece in the saddle) it seems to mean the horse is never surprised with a rider.  For me, it means that a horse, which can be surprised without a rider, doesn't magically become immune to being surprised just because he has a rider.Both ways to go are correct, and neither is wrong, given the individual DM preference.Take care,Atavar</blockquote>