NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sadras" data-source="post: 6512191" data-attributes="member: 6688277">Sure no problem. So far we agree, however, I'm inclined to believe that a system built around subjective difficulty results in greater DM fiat than one built under objective difficulty. For instance if in 5e, the DM determines that it is a Hard DC to break open a large oak door at level 1 - then forever, whatever level the PC is, that task requires a Hard DC. The difficulty is as a result of the ingame fiction (supposed physics), whereas in 4e you might decide upping the ante for metagame reasons - which leads to DM fiat.If you want to disagree with me and say there is no difference as the DC scales with level in 4e, then there is no difference between the two systems and your point about the supposed subjective/objective difficulties between the two systems is moot.Okay, so far all we are discussing is the differences in the game mechanics of the two systems. (Bounded Accuracy in 5e and progressive scaling in 4e). How are the players involved in 'skinning' the fiction in 4e? I'm lost again. If I'm understanding you correctly are you saying that when one utilises "fantasy world physics" one loses genre fidelity and consistent drama/climax, why? Does RM also suffer from this or is this only limited to D&D which is not 4e? I have no problem with different mechanics of different system, I just don't see why one loses drama/climax just because DCs are different in two different games.  I do not agree. @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=42582" target="_blank">pemerton</a> in the "Role thread" described how in 4e one could either use Str or Athletics along with DM fiat to keep a door closed from ones opponents on the other side. How is that any different to 5e, where does one lose the drama/climax?Based on your original post it sound likes like skill challenges in 4e would contain less DM fiat and it would be more structured in 4e.Are you saying that in 4e one doesn't concern themselves about the DC and willy-nilly selects a difficulty without any regard to the in-game fiction? So it doesn't matter if its easy, medium, hard, or impossible as long as there is drama/climax - am I reading you right?Does "verisimilitude' not play a role in 4e skill challenges? At which point does verisimilitude not become important in 4e? Does it say so in 5e's handbooks that the DMs job is not to consider dramatic outcomes/momentum?Agreed, but how does that limit dramatic outcome. Thanx.To assist our discussion should you wish to refer to something specific in the 4e Skill Challenge the link below is to two interlinked epic 4e Skill Challenges posted and designed by @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=1210" target="_blank">the Jester</a> who certainly appears skilled in the ways of 4e IMO.   <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?402617-The-Final-Arc-of-my-Epic-4e-Campaign/page2" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?402617-The-Final-Arc-of-my-Epic-4e-Campaign/page2</a></blockquote>

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