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Can a PC perform a miracle with a stat/skill check?
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<blockquote data-quote="Sunseeker" data-source="post: 6513729"><p>Well yes 'a miracle' could be anything, but really even though a miracle <em>could</em> be anything that doesn't mean it actually is. The world continues to turn, the sun rises, birds sing, trees rustle, wishing for the trees to rustle is only a miracle if some great evil has destroyed all the forests. Otherwise it's as mundane as being able to eat and breathe. Conceptually I don't think many people would have problems constraining 'miracles' to 'rare awesome things'. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Really? I don't see that at odds with any religious tradition past or present. In Abrahamic religions, God always favors those who are more pious. In Classical religions, the gods favor those who make them happy. In Eastern religions, the gods favor those who more closely adhere to the rules and traditions of the religion. People who are more pious, people who practice making the gods happy, people who learn and follow the rules become better at doing those things and thusly better at gaining their deity's favor.</p><p></p><p></p><p>D&D gods are something of a mix between various religions around the world and throughout history, but generally speaking from reading their bios and the books they're involved in, they tend to favor people who do all the things described above: people who adhere to their rules, people who do things to make them happy, and people who are true-hearted in the way they follow the god. </p><p></p><p>Anyone can pray for miracles IMO. A cleric might simply be better at praying to the God of Puppies than the fighter, even if they worship the same god, simply because the cleric's life has been spent studying the holy ways, while a fighter, pious as they may be, has not dedicated themselves to such study. The Cleric simply knows the correct songs and dances and how to perform them, while the fighter might be more familiar with the lay rituals. </p><p></p><p>As I've said before, I conceive of miracles as great things. They're not something someone should be able to power-build to perform. I would account for not only class, but the actions and attitudes the player trying to perform the miracle has taken throughout the game. Just because you follow a righteous cause, doesn't mean you're a righteous person and I think that as the DM it is my responsibility to ensure the deity accounts for that (if it matters to that deity).</p><p></p><p></p><p>Which as I said, is why I would account for more than just in-game statistics on such a request. The honorable, generous, kind fighter who prays regularly and gives tribute may end up far more successful at praying for a miracle than the guy who wears white robes and throws holy water at the bad guys.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sunseeker, post: 6513729"] Well yes 'a miracle' could be anything, but really even though a miracle [I]could[/I] be anything that doesn't mean it actually is. The world continues to turn, the sun rises, birds sing, trees rustle, wishing for the trees to rustle is only a miracle if some great evil has destroyed all the forests. Otherwise it's as mundane as being able to eat and breathe. Conceptually I don't think many people would have problems constraining 'miracles' to 'rare awesome things'. Really? I don't see that at odds with any religious tradition past or present. In Abrahamic religions, God always favors those who are more pious. In Classical religions, the gods favor those who make them happy. In Eastern religions, the gods favor those who more closely adhere to the rules and traditions of the religion. People who are more pious, people who practice making the gods happy, people who learn and follow the rules become better at doing those things and thusly better at gaining their deity's favor. D&D gods are something of a mix between various religions around the world and throughout history, but generally speaking from reading their bios and the books they're involved in, they tend to favor people who do all the things described above: people who adhere to their rules, people who do things to make them happy, and people who are true-hearted in the way they follow the god. Anyone can pray for miracles IMO. A cleric might simply be better at praying to the God of Puppies than the fighter, even if they worship the same god, simply because the cleric's life has been spent studying the holy ways, while a fighter, pious as they may be, has not dedicated themselves to such study. The Cleric simply knows the correct songs and dances and how to perform them, while the fighter might be more familiar with the lay rituals. As I've said before, I conceive of miracles as great things. They're not something someone should be able to power-build to perform. I would account for not only class, but the actions and attitudes the player trying to perform the miracle has taken throughout the game. Just because you follow a righteous cause, doesn't mean you're a righteous person and I think that as the DM it is my responsibility to ensure the deity accounts for that (if it matters to that deity). Which as I said, is why I would account for more than just in-game statistics on such a request. The honorable, generous, kind fighter who prays regularly and gives tribute may end up far more successful at praying for a miracle than the guy who wears white robes and throws holy water at the bad guys. [/QUOTE]
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Can a PC perform a miracle with a stat/skill check?
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