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Can a PC perform a miracle with a stat/skill check?
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6538339" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>One other thing on the goals of play for an RPG (whether or not anyone is interested in continuing the discussion). The communicating of them isn't just important for the players to be able to understand what this or that game is all about and follow through with a coherent play experience. Prologue to that is the designers actually identifying them and understanding them so they can actually focus on creating a system that consistently produces said coherent play experience. Whether the gameplay is supposed to be about "test your beliefs in a crucible of fantasy conflict" or "survive a haunted house/warehouse/etc which is filled with murderous ghosts" or "survive a monster-infested/trap-laden dungeon by your wits and skill, loot the treasure and GTFO" or "at what price, power (?)" or "stand between God's law and the best intentions of the week" or "heroic adventurers saving towns/kingdoms/the world from nefarious villains and marauding monsters" or "find out what happens when a caper goes wrong", there should be design intent and focused mechanical infrastructure that funnels play inexorably toward this (when run naturally/correctly). </p><p></p><p>Once that is done, it would be nice (its not crucial, but it is certainly valuable) if it is then articulated to the players. Otherwise, you may end up with frustrated players when they try to force a Dungeon World experience out of Runequest or a Dread experience out of Murderous Ghosts...or an AD&D 2e experience out of 4e. Every one of those games, and every leisure experience in the world, seeks "fun", "enjoyment", or "satisfaction", generically, as the overriding impetus to get together and engage in the first place. However, if Bob wants "to bargain with demons and see if he can retain his humanity while gaining the power to do <em>x</em>" and Harry wants "to exorcise demons as he metes out justice to sinners or dies while trying", they are wanting very different things out of their play experiences. And the system should support them and be clear about how it is doing so.</p><p></p><p>For whatever reason (I have plenty of thoughts on this but I'm not going to get into it), D&D players seem to have an aversion to tight, focused design and an associated transparent play goal. Surely it has something to do with the "badwrongfun" or "you can't win at D&D" or "you only win at D&D if you're having fun" cultural meme that has now endured decades. Nonetheless, I don't think that aversion is particularly helpful for prospective RPG players as it can easily lead to frustration, disinterest, and dismissal.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 6538339, member: 6696971"] One other thing on the goals of play for an RPG (whether or not anyone is interested in continuing the discussion). The communicating of them isn't just important for the players to be able to understand what this or that game is all about and follow through with a coherent play experience. Prologue to that is the designers actually identifying them and understanding them so they can actually focus on creating a system that consistently produces said coherent play experience. Whether the gameplay is supposed to be about "test your beliefs in a crucible of fantasy conflict" or "survive a haunted house/warehouse/etc which is filled with murderous ghosts" or "survive a monster-infested/trap-laden dungeon by your wits and skill, loot the treasure and GTFO" or "at what price, power (?)" or "stand between God's law and the best intentions of the week" or "heroic adventurers saving towns/kingdoms/the world from nefarious villains and marauding monsters" or "find out what happens when a caper goes wrong", there should be design intent and focused mechanical infrastructure that funnels play inexorably toward this (when run naturally/correctly). Once that is done, it would be nice (its not crucial, but it is certainly valuable) if it is then articulated to the players. Otherwise, you may end up with frustrated players when they try to force a Dungeon World experience out of Runequest or a Dread experience out of Murderous Ghosts...or an AD&D 2e experience out of 4e. Every one of those games, and every leisure experience in the world, seeks "fun", "enjoyment", or "satisfaction", generically, as the overriding impetus to get together and engage in the first place. However, if Bob wants "to bargain with demons and see if he can retain his humanity while gaining the power to do [I]x[/I]" and Harry wants "to exorcise demons as he metes out justice to sinners or dies while trying", they are wanting very different things out of their play experiences. And the system should support them and be clear about how it is doing so. For whatever reason (I have plenty of thoughts on this but I'm not going to get into it), D&D players seem to have an aversion to tight, focused design and an associated transparent play goal. Surely it has something to do with the "badwrongfun" or "you can't win at D&D" or "you only win at D&D if you're having fun" cultural meme that has now endured decades. Nonetheless, I don't think that aversion is particularly helpful for prospective RPG players as it can easily lead to frustration, disinterest, and dismissal. [/QUOTE]
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