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Can a Slowed Creature Shift?
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<blockquote data-quote="DracoSuave" data-source="post: 5244522" data-attributes="member: 71571"><p>Sure you can. It looks back in time to see what happened, and if it disallows future actions then it disallows future actions. It cannot undo past actions because they've already happened, unless it's part of an interrupt.</p><p></p><p>So if you took two actions and become dazed, further actions are illegal, but it has no ability to undo past actions.</p><p></p><p>If this does not make sense, I'm sure I can explain it better. It is not contradictory.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>No, because present actions have NO ability to cancel previous actions without an explicit exception in place. What happened has happened unless you have an ability to make it happen. Dazed is not an exception to that rule, therefore you apply the rule. However, it WILL prevent future actions, because that IS what it does.</p><p></p><p>How is that not clear?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Untrue. No such thing.</p><p></p><p>If you have the case where you have a creature who has taken two actions before dazed, and becomes dazed, he loses his future actions. Why is that?</p><p></p><p>General Rule: Taking actions. you get one minor, move, and one standard</p><p></p><p>^</p><p>|</p><p></p><p>Specific: Dazed. You can only take one action on your turn.</p><p></p><p>^</p><p>|</p><p></p><p>More specific: The creature has already taken two actions. This contradicts dazed, and therefore overlays it. However, there does not exist an exception stating the creature may continue to take actions, therefore dazed works perfectly well after that point, denying that creature his actions.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Hey. Look at that. When a specific situation contradicts the rules, the specific situation supercedes the rule, but that which does not contradict the rule does not supercede.</p><p></p><p>There is no paradox.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>At this point, your turn ends, and negative end-of-turn effects take their course. Positive end-of-turn effects do not. Your initiative does not yet change.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>No. Anything having to do with delaying is no longer legal for you to do. Delaying cannot be done while dazed. If a rule kicks in saying you no longer get to choose something, you no longer get to choose it. There's nothing special about Delaying that says 'if delaying becomes illegal, take your turn immediately.'</p><p></p><p>In fact:</p><p></p><p>If you don’t take your delayed turn before your initiative comes up, you lose the delayed turn and your initiative remains where it was.</p><p></p><p>And it's not even unfair, abilities can be countered and actions lost due to tactical negligence. (yes, delaying to counter a dazing monster is tactical negligence)</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Until you lose dazed, or your initiative comes up again.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The problem is taking such an action would be using the delay procedure, which is illegal when dazed. And losing the ability to delay in no way means 'you get to take your action now'. That's not even hinted at in the rules.</p><p></p><p>The same happens if you had a readied action for the opponent that dazed you... once dazed you cannot take immediate actions and so your reaction never takes place.</p><p></p><p>Dazed is a good counter to 'delay' and 'ready'. It also makes sense, being dazed means you're not able to act as effectively... delaying and readying are completely fair game to be blitzed by it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DracoSuave, post: 5244522, member: 71571"] Sure you can. It looks back in time to see what happened, and if it disallows future actions then it disallows future actions. It cannot undo past actions because they've already happened, unless it's part of an interrupt. So if you took two actions and become dazed, further actions are illegal, but it has no ability to undo past actions. If this does not make sense, I'm sure I can explain it better. It is not contradictory. No, because present actions have NO ability to cancel previous actions without an explicit exception in place. What happened has happened unless you have an ability to make it happen. Dazed is not an exception to that rule, therefore you apply the rule. However, it WILL prevent future actions, because that IS what it does. How is that not clear? Untrue. No such thing. If you have the case where you have a creature who has taken two actions before dazed, and becomes dazed, he loses his future actions. Why is that? General Rule: Taking actions. you get one minor, move, and one standard ^ | Specific: Dazed. You can only take one action on your turn. ^ | More specific: The creature has already taken two actions. This contradicts dazed, and therefore overlays it. However, there does not exist an exception stating the creature may continue to take actions, therefore dazed works perfectly well after that point, denying that creature his actions. Hey. Look at that. When a specific situation contradicts the rules, the specific situation supercedes the rule, but that which does not contradict the rule does not supercede. There is no paradox. At this point, your turn ends, and negative end-of-turn effects take their course. Positive end-of-turn effects do not. Your initiative does not yet change. No. Anything having to do with delaying is no longer legal for you to do. Delaying cannot be done while dazed. If a rule kicks in saying you no longer get to choose something, you no longer get to choose it. There's nothing special about Delaying that says 'if delaying becomes illegal, take your turn immediately.' In fact: If you don’t take your delayed turn before your initiative comes up, you lose the delayed turn and your initiative remains where it was. And it's not even unfair, abilities can be countered and actions lost due to tactical negligence. (yes, delaying to counter a dazing monster is tactical negligence) Until you lose dazed, or your initiative comes up again. The problem is taking such an action would be using the delay procedure, which is illegal when dazed. And losing the ability to delay in no way means 'you get to take your action now'. That's not even hinted at in the rules. The same happens if you had a readied action for the opponent that dazed you... once dazed you cannot take immediate actions and so your reaction never takes place. Dazed is a good counter to 'delay' and 'ready'. It also makes sense, being dazed means you're not able to act as effectively... delaying and readying are completely fair game to be blitzed by it. [/QUOTE]
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