Can a spider-critter be an animal if it's got an Int of 2?

[RangerWickett]

What if I want a spider-like critter that can be trained, say for Drow who want 'guard dogs'? Vermin normally have no Int, but do the rules prevent me from having a spider that's an animal (int 1 or 2) instead of a vermin? And I don't want a magical critter at all, just a somewhat smarter spider.

 

[Alzrius]

I suppose that as long as you kept it to the traits described for the Animal type, there's no reason you couldn't have it be a spider.

 

[dcollins]

Aren't there special variant rules somewhere to be able to train Vermin?

 

[LokiDR]

Sounds like a magical beast or aberation. You can train them (if they have int 2) but the Handle Animal DCs increase by 5. Magical beasts are stronger than aberations as a type, if that is a consideration. Really, a spider-thing is either changed by magic or some sort of freaky thing.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

do the rules prevent me from having a spider that's an animal (int 1 or 2) instead of a vermin?

This question confuses me. It seems akin to asking "can I have a dragon that's a monstrous humanoid?" A spider is an arachnid, which is a vermin. The rules don't specifically say "spider can't be animals" because, IMO, it'd be like saying "dragons can't be monstrous humanoids." They have a type, and are bound by the restrictions of that type.

That said, if you're the DM in this instance, you can break those rules at will. If you were a player in my game, I'd give you an odd look, then suggest either a magical beast (augmented vermin) or animal (resembling, but not, a spider).

If you don't want a magical critter, aberration works as well. Mutant spiders that for some reason are a bit smarter than vermin?

 

[Three_Haligonians]

The Arms & Equipment Guide has a whole chapter on pets, mounts, and the like. This includes a feat that allows you to train other types of creatures with Handle Animal, although it makes the stipulation that the creature has to have an Int of 4 or lower and you might run into the technicality that Int - isn't actually lower than Int 4. It also specifically mentions monsterous spiders as mounts, so you might just want to extrapolate the rules to cover guard duty as well.

And I agree with dcollins, there must be magic items or variant rules out there somewhere that lets you train Vermin.

J from Three Haligonians

 

[diaglo]

for examples in use. try the Banewarrens by Monte Cook. iirc, there is a spider in there with an ettercap master.

 

[RangerWickett]

This question confuses me. It seems akin to asking "can I have a dragon that's a monstrous humanoid?" A spider is an arachnid, which is a vermin. The rules don't specifically say "spider can't be animals" because, IMO, it'd be like saying "dragons can't be monstrous humanoids." They have a type, and are bound by the restrictions of that type.

That said, if you're the DM in this instance, you can break those rules at will. If you were a player in my game, I'd give you an odd look, then suggest either a magical beast (augmented vermin) or animal (resembling, but not, a spider).

If you don't want a magical critter, aberration works as well. Mutant spiders that for some reason are a bit smarter than vermin?

Well, it's for a product, so I want to try to hew toward official-dom. I want spiders that can be a drow druid's animal companions.

And vermin by definition have an Int of -. Animals have an actual Int score, and are described as real-world creatures, usually vertebrates. Nothing in the type rules object to semi-intelligent spiders being animals instead of vermin, just like a semi-intelligent slime monster would not be an ooze, but rather an aberration, because oozes have an Int of - too, if I recall correctly.

 

[Pinotage]

Well, it's for a product, so I want to try to hew toward official-dom. I want spiders that can be a drow druid's animal companions.

And vermin by definition have an Int of -. Animals have an actual Int score, and are described as real-world creatures, usually vertebrates. Nothing in the type rules object to semi-intelligent spiders being animals instead of vermin, just like a semi-intelligent slime monster would not be an ooze, but rather an aberration, because oozes have an Int of - too, if I recall correctly.

But if it is a intelligent spider, presumably that intelligence must come from somewhere, such as magic? Hence, a magical beast, rather than a vermin. I'd probably classify it as magical beast since it doesn't fit the concept of animal at all. It might not be able to be an animal companion, but it can still be trained.

Pinotage

 

[Nonlethal Force]

... Or ...

If you are the DM, why don't you just make up a "new" creature. Call it a drownid or arachnoelf or something silly like that.

Find yourself stats for a typical animal companion that are available to druids/rangers/the like. Copy those stats, give the animal an appropriate number of attacks and voila, you've created a new animal. It isn't a vermin, because its not a spider. It can have an intelligence, because its an animal in your world.

If you are the DM, flex your creativity. And if you get your stats from the stat block of a creature that is already allowed to be an animal companion - I don't see a game balance issue.

...

Of course, the problem with this suggestion is that we don't want to get into the habit of circumventing the rules all the time, because then the rules are pointless. But in this case it seems pretty harmless to differentiate what "shape" the animal companion is in. As long as it is only going to be allowed to act ina manner equitable to other animal companions, I don't see a major issue. Just means yours has eight legs and is black and hairy instead of something else.