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<blockquote data-quote="P1NBACK" data-source="post: 5302435" data-attributes="member: 83768">That's exactly what I am saying. Read my previous post. No fiction = no mechanics. Otherwise, you're just playing a boardgame. If one of my players says, &quot;I use my 'Grappling Strike' power to immobilize the swarm!&quot; My immediate response is, &quot;Awesome. How do you do that?&quot; If he doesn't have any fictional justification, then it simply doesn't happen. This whole, &quot;if it's in the rules it should happen&quot; is a boardgame mentality. What I'm trying to accomplish is fiction with the rules there to facilitate that.I never said anything in my post about &quot;corner cases&quot; - so I really don't get how you &quot;disagree&quot; here. No, I think the same applies to 4E rules. Can you fictionally immobilize this target? Yes? Cool. You do it. No? Sorry, you can't. There are no &quot;corner case&quot;. Every case is the same. Can you fictionally justify it? If so, then you do it. Wtf are you talking about? I don't think the designers look at each scenario and write out whether it applies in each situation. They make a general rule about how to &quot;grab&quot; something and immobilize. It takes common sense and fiction for that rule to be invoked. I'm not talking about &quot;facts&quot;. I'm talking about fiction. If you say, &quot;I grab the swarm...&quot; I'm simply going to ask, &quot;Sure. How do you do that?&quot; If you can't come up with something fictionally, you can't do it. Period. If your answer is... &quot;Uh, I don't know... This power says I can...&quot; I'm gonna say, &quot;I don't give a <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />. I need to know HOW you do it.&quot; This has nothing to do with &quot;facts&quot; or &quot;knowledge&quot; or &quot;reality&quot; and everything to do with &quot;fiction&quot; and &quot;justification&quot;. If you're playing the game that has &quot;Condition Red&quot; and &quot;Condition Blue&quot; you might as well be playing a boardgame. There's a reason they added &quot;you are lying down&quot; to the prone entry which was VERY missing from the original entry. It's because fictionally, it matters. I honestly find it very sad to see people playing with the idea of &quot;rules first&quot; and &quot;fiction second&quot;. For me, it's Fiction First, then determine where the rules come in to adjudicate that.Unfortunately, the way 4E is designed, it's easy to fall into that trap. So, I understand.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="P1NBACK, post: 5302435, member: 83768"] That's exactly what I am saying. Read my previous post. No fiction = no mechanics. Otherwise, you're just playing a boardgame. If one of my players says, "I use my 'Grappling Strike' power to immobilize the swarm!" My immediate response is, "Awesome. How do you do that?" If he doesn't have any fictional justification, then it simply doesn't happen. This whole, "if it's in the rules it should happen" is a boardgame mentality. What I'm trying to accomplish is fiction with the rules there to facilitate that. I never said anything in my post about "corner cases" - so I really don't get how you "disagree" here. No, I think the same applies to 4E rules. Can you fictionally immobilize this target? Yes? Cool. You do it. No? Sorry, you can't. There are no "corner case". Every case is the same. Can you fictionally justify it? If so, then you do it. Wtf are you talking about? I don't think the designers look at each scenario and write out whether it applies in each situation. They make a general rule about how to "grab" something and immobilize. It takes common sense and fiction for that rule to be invoked. I'm not talking about "facts". I'm talking about fiction. If you say, "I grab the swarm..." I'm simply going to ask, "Sure. How do you do that?" If you can't come up with something fictionally, you can't do it. Period. If your answer is... "Uh, I don't know... This power says I can..." I'm gonna say, "I don't give a :):):):). I need to know HOW you do it." This has nothing to do with "facts" or "knowledge" or "reality" and everything to do with "fiction" and "justification". If you're playing the game that has "Condition Red" and "Condition Blue" you might as well be playing a boardgame. There's a reason they added "you are lying down" to the prone entry which was VERY missing from the original entry. It's because fictionally, it matters. I honestly find it very sad to see people playing with the idea of "rules first" and "fiction second". For me, it's Fiction First, then determine where the rules come in to adjudicate that. Unfortunately, the way 4E is designed, it's easy to fall into that trap. So, I understand. [/QUOTE]

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