Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="P1NBACK" data-source="post: 5305587" data-attributes="member: 83768">No. &quot;I threaten him...&quot; is not an answer to &quot;How do you do that?&quot; Ok, you threaten him. We've established that this is what your intentions are. How do you threaten him? I'm going to stop posting in this thread because I've listed several ignored examples that are in no way shape or form an &quot;entire conversation&quot;. &quot;I go hunting...&quot; is a description. That's acceptable. Unacceptable: &quot;I use my Nature skill...&quot;I JUST said that you should gloss over (and that means, not rolling) those things that aren't important to the narrative. If &quot;finding food&quot; is not important, why even roll for it? &quot;Sweet. You have food. Now what?&quot; And this is the crux of it. Because whether you are using Intimidate or Diplomacy is important in the fiction. If you're ignoring those defined, unique skills, why have them as skills at all? Why not just have my &quot;talking&quot; skill (which some games do...)? It doesn't take any social skills to describe how your character is diplomatic. &quot;I want to use Diplomacy on this girl to get her to open up to me about her father's mistress.&quot; &quot;Sure. How do you do that?&quot; &quot;Well, my character approaches her and in his most suave voice woos her with a poem dedicated to her beauty.&quot; &quot;Oh that's good. Roll to see if you woo her.&quot; Player rolls Diplomacy check. If they want their character to accomplish something in the fiction, shouldn't their character take fictional action? &quot;I roll Intimidate&quot; is not a fictional action. Once again, you don't need &quot;in-depth&quot; descriptions for it to be fiction. Where did you get this? I'll say it again, for those of you who aren't getting it: In order for your character to do something in the fiction, you'll need to describe how they're doing it. Plain and simple. Here we go with this &quot;good enough&quot; thing. For real? Have I not addressed this enough? First of all, there's no &quot;Pick the Lock&quot; skill. There's a thievery skill. &quot;I want to use my thieves tools to pick the lock&quot; is a fictional description that invokes &quot;Roll Thievery&quot; mechanic. The player has ALREADY used fiction to invoke the mechanic by saying. &quot;I use my thieves tools to pick the lock.&quot; Again, &quot;I analyze the conjuration&quot; is a fictional description of &quot;Roll Arcana&quot;. I wouldn't let the character say, &quot;I want to make an Arcana check&quot; without supplying the &quot;By analyzing the conjuration&quot;. That's the fictional element. Complementing him = FictionRoll Diplomacy = MechanicSeeing if he is susceptible to a bribe = FictionRoll Insight = MechanicOffer a bribe = FictionRoll Diplomacy = MechanicUse my shield to pin down the swarm = FictionMake Grab Check = MechanicHow are you not seeing this? You're arguing against me when you're saying exactly what I am saying... I'm confused by this. I literally said in my original post that started all this, &quot;If you can fictionally justify &quot;grabbing&quot; or &quot;restraining&quot; something, then do it. Otherwise, no.&quot; Fiction is not &quot;hand-wavey&quot;. It's very important to the game. Otherwise, you might as well be playing a board game (like people apparently do when they enter combat in 4E) using &quot;Condition Red&quot; and &quot;Condition Blue&quot;... Except, &quot;Condition Blue&quot; requires you to be lying down... (weird... you mean me? No, silly... Your character. IN THE FICTION).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="P1NBACK, post: 5305587, member: 83768"] No. "I threaten him..." is not an answer to "How do you do that?" Ok, you threaten him. We've established that this is what your intentions are. How do you threaten him? I'm going to stop posting in this thread because I've listed several ignored examples that are in no way shape or form an "entire conversation". "I go hunting..." is a description. That's acceptable. Unacceptable: "I use my Nature skill..." I JUST said that you should gloss over (and that means, not rolling) those things that aren't important to the narrative. If "finding food" is not important, why even roll for it? "Sweet. You have food. Now what?" And this is the crux of it. Because whether you are using Intimidate or Diplomacy is important in the fiction. If you're ignoring those defined, unique skills, why have them as skills at all? Why not just have my "talking" skill (which some games do...)? It doesn't take any social skills to describe how your character is diplomatic. "I want to use Diplomacy on this girl to get her to open up to me about her father's mistress." "Sure. How do you do that?" "Well, my character approaches her and in his most suave voice woos her with a poem dedicated to her beauty." "Oh that's good. Roll to see if you woo her." Player rolls Diplomacy check. If they want their character to accomplish something in the fiction, shouldn't their character take fictional action? "I roll Intimidate" is not a fictional action. Once again, you don't need "in-depth" descriptions for it to be fiction. Where did you get this? I'll say it again, for those of you who aren't getting it: In order for your character to do something in the fiction, you'll need to describe how they're doing it. Plain and simple. Here we go with this "good enough" thing. For real? Have I not addressed this enough? First of all, there's no "Pick the Lock" skill. There's a thievery skill. "I want to use my thieves tools to pick the lock" is a fictional description that invokes "Roll Thievery" mechanic. The player has ALREADY used fiction to invoke the mechanic by saying. "I use my thieves tools to pick the lock." Again, "I analyze the conjuration" is a fictional description of "Roll Arcana". I wouldn't let the character say, "I want to make an Arcana check" without supplying the "By analyzing the conjuration". That's the fictional element. Complementing him = Fiction Roll Diplomacy = Mechanic Seeing if he is susceptible to a bribe = Fiction Roll Insight = Mechanic Offer a bribe = Fiction Roll Diplomacy = Mechanic Use my shield to pin down the swarm = Fiction Make Grab Check = Mechanic How are you not seeing this? You're arguing against me when you're saying exactly what I am saying... I'm confused by this. I literally said in my original post that started all this, "If you can fictionally justify "grabbing" or "restraining" something, then do it. Otherwise, no." Fiction is not "hand-wavey". It's very important to the game. Otherwise, you might as well be playing a board game (like people apparently do when they enter combat in 4E) using "Condition Red" and "Condition Blue"... Except, "Condition Blue" requires you to be lying down... (weird... you mean me? No, silly... Your character. IN THE FICTION). [/QUOTE]

Verification