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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Primitive Screwhead" data-source="post: 5308955" data-attributes="member: 20805">You know, I could have sworn this got covered alot upthread. If PC has a power that grab a foe on a hit, and the foe happens to be a swarm and the dice indicate a hit.. then it is up to either the player or the DM to provide the fiction that supports the mechanical result of 'grabbed' against the swarm.  "The monk strikes the middle of the swarm, knocking many of them over and scattering the others. Some of the centipedes swarm up the Monks arm.. biting and crawling into places they are not meant to be..." could be the fiction behind this;PC turn - Monk  hits swarm with power that 'grabs' opponent with an unarmed attackSwarm turn - Swarm is immobilized, but attacks the Monk with its aura and basic attackor;"The Monk strikes in a quick pattern at the edges of the swarm, causing the creatures to crawl over themselves, mounding up higher than normal and trying to keep away from the Monks lethal feet."or;... well, your imagination is the limit to this list.Same goes for prone oozes, critical hits on animated boulders, and damaging a fire elemental with a fireball.... 4e presumes that the player can expect the conditions listed on the card will happen and enables a more tactical approach to combat.Regardless, the players ability or inablity to explain how a 4e power inflicts a mechanical condition on the target should not affect how the target is affected. Now, if you are playing a more free-form game system... then yes.. some rules even leave all the mechanical results of an attack to the description by the player. That being said.. I agree with Infiniti... when using skills or stunts.. the decsription comes first and the DM determines which skill, DC and effect.. altho he/she should state those prior to the player commiting to the roll.ie: [sblock]Player: I want to stop these critters from moving, I am going to toss a blanket over them!DM: Okay, that sounds like a good move {and I want to encourage this in my game}, so make a DEX based attack against the swarms REF, gain +2 if you are trained in Theivery. On a hit you will immobilize and blind the swarm until the end of your next turn.Player: That works for me!.. reaches for dice[/sblock]</blockquote>

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