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Message: <blockquote data-quote="eamon" data-source="post: 5311056" data-attributes="member: 51942">This fluff is potentially reasonable.  However, for reasons discussed in a previous post which you haven't yet responded to, it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.  As to there being any kind of "onus" on me to somehow resolve this dispute - that's just childish.  I have named several possible resolutions, one of which being to, you know, not allow grabbing a swarm.  If anything, since I'm stating that there is to my knowledge no fluff that adequately explains how grabbing is possible yet forced movement is not, it would be rather much simpler for you to find a counterexample that does make sense.Not that you'll be able to, since I'm almost positive such a fluff doesn't exist, but if you can find a fluff you'd be willing to use yourself that is consistent, feel free to post it.If you say so, it must be true.  That's your argument with respect to grabbing swarms too, right?Not the same, but related.  Using your own example of swarm "alphas" - how would they be different, again?Not all PC's are epic tier; and all explanations you have so far put forward don't hold water.  It doesn't fit the fluff because there is no in-game mechanic or explanation for why this should be possible; yet it is a generic combat ability possessed by all. My fantasy is internally consistent, insofar as I'm sane and willing to spend the effort to think about it.I find that immersion into the story and the characters is greater and more interesting when I feel like the challenges they face are meaningful and solvable.  Out-of-the box solutions are more likely when people understand not just the numbers on their character sheet, but also how they translate to the game-world.The rules are a means to provide a consistent and fun gameplay experience, not an end.  The grabbing rules wrt swarms aren't critical to overal tactical enjoyment (grabbing is way to rare and tactically dubious for that) and aren't consistent, and as such they are means that are better avoided - i.e. don't use the rules as written for grabbing swarms.</blockquote>

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