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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 6307207" data-attributes="member: 18">I'm not trying to be difficult here Mistwell - but it's not experience, it's math. A Rogue built and played with the same level of skill as a damage-oriented Fighter (which is the default in 5E) is going to do less damage than that Fighter, and be less survivable than the Fighter, and have less &quot;clutch&quot; power than the Fighter, as of the October playtest rules. That was not the case as of the September rules, where the Rogue would be less survivable, and have less &quot;clutch&quot;, but routinely do equal or sometimes more damage.In both cases the Rogue also has to work harder than the Fighter - picking their targets based on who is vulnerable, not necessarily the tactically best targets, too (though they often will be).Experience will vary it wildly, but the rules will remain the same. I mean, in 3E, in most groups, LFQW wasn't a big problem because a lot of Wizards were played in a unfocused and unoptimized, and campaigns often ended below the levels where it got real, but it was still a problem with the rules when they were played well or levels got higher.People who are saying that their Rogue does as much damage or more than the Fighter as basically telling us that either the Fighter in their group is not built/played as well as the Rogue, or, I think, selectively remembering the Rogue's &quot;big numbers&quot; and not recalling the Fighter's multiple attacks and so on.EDIT - This will be less of an issue at low levels, but at higher levels, once the Fighter gets his multiple attacks and so on...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 6307207, member: 18"] I'm not trying to be difficult here Mistwell - but it's not experience, it's math. A Rogue built and played with the same level of skill as a damage-oriented Fighter (which is the default in 5E) is going to do less damage than that Fighter, and be less survivable than the Fighter, and have less "clutch" power than the Fighter, as of the October playtest rules. That was not the case as of the September rules, where the Rogue would be less survivable, and have less "clutch", but routinely do equal or sometimes more damage. In both cases the Rogue also has to work harder than the Fighter - picking their targets based on who is vulnerable, not necessarily the tactically best targets, too (though they often will be). Experience will vary it wildly, but the rules will remain the same. I mean, in 3E, in most groups, LFQW wasn't a big problem because a lot of Wizards were played in a unfocused and unoptimized, and campaigns often ended below the levels where it got real, but it was still a problem with the rules when they were played well or levels got higher. People who are saying that their Rogue does as much damage or more than the Fighter as basically telling us that either the Fighter in their group is not built/played as well as the Rogue, or, I think, selectively remembering the Rogue's "big numbers" and not recalling the Fighter's multiple attacks and so on. EDIT - This will be less of an issue at low levels, but at higher levels, once the Fighter gets his multiple attacks and so on... [/QUOTE]

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